Comair MEC burning bridges with Delta?

[NYRANGERS]

otto

I was under the impression that it would be preferential hiring for you guys and the ASA guys. I did not here about the military guys getting the first shot. Although with you working at comair and being a military pilot you would have a great shot at the first round of hiring.

I think comair and ASA should get the preferential interview, then the rest of the guys should get their shot. But I guess this is a done deal for now.

If somebody has the actual proposal, could they post it here. I will also try to find it.

take care,

NYR

 

[General Lee]

What did the Delta pilots (and all other ALPA pilots) do for Comair pilots when they were in their time of need (their unsuccessful strike)? We gave them money, support, and did not fly their struck work. (We didn't really have a choice with the last one, but we told management we would not) Our company suffered a loss of about $250 million, and eventually settled with the Comair pilots. Ok, now it is our time of need---we have 1015 pilots out and soon to be 1060, and what does the Comair group led by their MEC who speaks for them do? They say NO to allowing our guys and girls to go to the bottom of their list and fly RJ's, a gesture that would NOT affect any of them whatsoever. The MEC obviously has the ability to exert pressure on hiring. How do I know that? The head of DCI, (I forgot his name--starts with a B I believe) stated in an Atlanta Journal Constitution article that it was up to the particular airline and he stated that the Comair MEC must have some influence with their Management. He stated that. He also said that ASA was allowing furloughed Delta pilots to go there because "they want experienced pilots" there.
I don't know why Delta doesn't order Comair to do something, but I believe the Comair pilots should SPEAK UP to their elected MEC and say something. I believe the average Comair pilot will be losing out because the top 100 pilots in the seniority list are ruining their chances to ever get hired at Delta. People keep saying that it will be 5-10 years before hiring resumes there. That very well might be dead WRONG. There was a large meeting in ATL two weeks ago with a lot of Delta VP's, Chief Pilots, and the CFO---Michele Burns. They said we are currently losing $3 million a day in this quarter (the slow quarter), but should be cash positive for the rest of the year. We supposedly have $2.6 Billion in cash, and BORROWING POWER-----something Continental does not. She said we are interested in United's Pacific routes if and when they become available, and also the Heathrow slots. She said we also are interested in some assets if USAir tumbles--like transatlantic from Philly. Another VP said we were parking the MD-11's, not selling them. With United falling and downsizing, those routes might very well be up for sale---because United doesn't own them---three banks do. So what does this all mean? The furloughs could be back within 2-3 years, and then we could start hiring----ASA and Skywest pilots. The Delta MEC asked for your MEC's help and offered some sort of preferential interviews, and he turned it down, asking for unlimited 70 seaters and some 90 seaters. Guess what? The more RJ's out there, the less mainline planes, which means less chances for you to make the big bucks at mainline. Do you want a chance to make big bucks? Or do you want to stay on the RJ or Retirement Jet forever? It is your choice. Voice your opinion to your MEC and do the right thing for the furloughed pilots, who probably helped you out at your time of need. ( some of the furloughed pilots were not on probation at the time and did help pay for your cause) And by the way Winged Princess----I was also "scooter trash", but actually got an interview and got hired the old fashion way.

Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Lumber Yak]

General Lee,

A job with Delta is not for everyone - that is clear - some people prefer regional flying and the lifestyle...

But we understand what you are saying: Comair's MEC did its members a disservice - the majority of Comair pilots probably would appreciate preferential treatment IF they are interested in pursuing a career with Delta. By negotiating in such an aggressive fashion, Comair's MEC has upset Delta's MEC and MOST Delta pilots - some of whom are involved in interviewing. Regardless of when hiring restarts, preferential treatment should be viewed as an asset - and ASA now has that asset.

The sad thing is that all three airlines operate under the same umbrella... While other airlines are whithering and laying off employees in record numbers, pilot groups should be working together. The one-seniority list idea never worked in the past because the proposals seemed too radical to the Delta pilots. I doubt if success is assured now because of this in-fighting. Comair's MEC was too greedy - better to take small steps and build relations before you jump. If I were a Comair pilot I would be upset and question WHY the MEC felt that huge step was necessary - especially when furloughed pilots were used as bargaining chips...

If you think this issue is not important, ask a random Delta pilot and he/she will likely disagree.

Good luck to all involved!

 

[NYRANGERS]

I think the sad thing is that the comair mec would only have to stomach a few of us Delta furloughed guys if cmr management ever agreed to hire. ASA only has 13 furloughed Delta pilots working for them. They are at the bottom of the list (as they should be) and they are in no way hurting anyones career. There is no reason to suspect that ther would be any more guys going to comair.

I guess there is no solution, but that is allright, it's all in the past.

 

[spinproof]

Yes we are all humbled by your greatness

...no actually the REALLY sad thing is that you furloughees still don't get it! You wouldn't be in this mess if YOUR MEC hadn't turned down a staple of COMAIR and ASA pilots a few years ago!

while we're at it ..why don't you ask your MEC why they didn't
do something about the "REAL" problem facing all our pilot groups.."Codesharing".

Lastly, congratulations to all you mainliners that got your job "The old fasion way"... I might want to suggest you look to the "NEW" fashion way as the wave of the future...the RJ!

Best of luck to all of you who feel your superior flying skills deserve to be put above those of us whom recognized the shift in the flying paradigm as a way of life. Surely your reward is in your zeal to bastardize those you feel are inferior. As you continue on this line of how you were "screwed" by the COMAIR MEC.

 

[DAL737FO]

"...no actually the REALLY sad thing is that you furloughees still don't get it! You wouldn't be in this mess if YOUR MEC hadn't turned down a staple of COMAIR and ASA pilots a few years ago!"

Who did that? Not Delta Mainline I assure you. Matter of fact your hardliners at Comair were against it.

"while we're at it ..why don't you ask your MEC why they didn't
do something about the "REAL" problem facing all our pilot groups.."Codesharing"."

I agree Codeshare and connection flying is taking flying away from mainline.

"Lastly, congratulations to all you mainliners that got your job "The old fasion way"... I might want to suggest you look to the "NEW" fashion way as the wave of the future...the RJ!"

Wave of the future? Why don't you try flavor of the month. Once the loads come back it is more economically viable to fly a larger aircraft on the route. RJ's are here to found routes to maturity and to maintain presence in the absence of customers to justify a large jet. The FAA is still predicting 1 billion passengers flying by 2013 do you think they are going to do it 50 to 70 pax at a time. The gridlock would be terrible.

"Best of luck to all of you who feel your superior flying skills deserve to be put above those of us whom recognized the shift in the flying paradigm as a way of life. Surely your reward is in your zeal to bastardize those you feel are inferior. As you continue on this line of how you were "screwed" by the COMAIR MEC."

For those of you that recognized the shift in flying paradigm? You have got to be kidding me. You got a job at a company that would hire you. What arrogance to say you saw this coming. Next time you're at your crystal ball please get next weeks lottery numbers for me. Good luck to all the Comair pilots out there. I agree that right now you have good times, however the economy will turn around and the people will start flying boeing again.

GII/GIII FO
used to fly boeings

 

[MetroSheriff]

Re: Yes we are all humbled by your greatness

...no actually the REALLY sad thing is that you furloughees still don't get it! You wouldn't be in this mess if YOUR MEC hadn't turned down a staple of COMAIR and ASA pilots a few years ago!

For someone with a name like Spinproof, that statement is laughable.

A PID was filed. Nothing more, nothing less. IAW the C & BLs, no method of integration was formally specified. You know that. To say a staple was offered by the DCI pilots is nothing more than SPIN.

The PID was the idea of the DOH pipe dreamers, hoping for a court mandated seniority windfall albeit cloaked in a false veil of union solidarity and brotherhood. If that wasn't the goal, then why wasn't a "staple-as-the ceiling" integration proposed, and agreed to by all the parties prior to the PID application.

I don't expect a straight answer, it was rhetorical.

That's my spin.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think the PID was a bad idea. The method and timing by which it was filed leads me to the conclusion that the reasons were less altruistic than some folks would have you believe.

As always, JMHO.

 

[General Lee]

Spinproof,

Guys like you do not get it. There was talk about a staple way back when, but your senior guys wanted date of hire senority. None of our 10,000 pilots at the time wanted that. The senior guys at Comair and ASA ruined it for everyone else by requesting that. Why wouldn't we accept a staple back then? None of us would have been affected and there would have been protection at the bottom. (just like what you would have if you would let our furloughs at the bottom of your list, but no.......) So, the RJ is the future huh? Great, looks like you will retire on it. After this Iraq thing is over and the economy recovers, things will get a lot better. There will be some casualities---like United and USAir, and the others will get bigger and stronger with the need to fill that capacity. Airlines like Delta will pick up pieces of the casualities and expand quickly like they did in 1996----when 3000 pilots were hired in 4 years. Our codeshare with CO and NW will also help bring back the furloughs (according to manning numbers produced by Delta in this codeshare-----about 1100 pilots will be back by 2005-----2 years from now). And then it will be time to start hiring again, and our interviewers will be briefed on your MEC's cooperation. Yes, I know about the rumor that ASA has stopped hiring for this year--2003, due to the retiring of their Brasilias---but atleast they made an effort. It is time for the pilots at Comair to speak loudly to their MEC and try to change this situation. We came through for you during your unsuccessful strike, and now it is time for you to help our furloughs. I want someone to try to refute that, did we help you or not?

Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[100LL... Again!]

metrosheriff-

what does your sig mean?

Magister is 'teacher' I think

Eventus I'm guessing is 'experience

Stultorum? 'Best' or 'greatest'? perhaps

 

[spinproof]

Whaaaaa......whaaaaa......whaaaa... same old tried retoric from an uninformed bunch of cry babys!!! Yes we did see this coming and no we don't need a crystal ball, although you do!

Why don't you try getting a job with COMAIR the right way, like apply as everyone else did, Hmmm? Or is that way beneath someone who feels they deserve to be "Coronated" with it!

What a bunch of whinny losers!!!

How many planes are on order at mainline...anybody...anybody?

How many on order at COMAIR,ASA,ect?

Well I guess there might be a shread of evidence where the shift is! Although there again you be sure to hang in there with your "Dinosauer" flying ! The Smithsonian has lots of room!

 

[DAL737FO]

Oh I get it now. I must have overlooked your profile before. You're not actually a pilot. Maybe more like a juvenile playing with his dad's computer after school. Run along sonny the playground will close soon. Leave this board for us old dinosaurs.

Is that enough flame material for you? That seems to be the only interest in your post. Have fun in your world.

 

[General Lee]

Spinproof,

You really are a funny guy or girl. Mainline will resume it's order of 100 or so MORE 737-800's in 2005. We are just PARKING the MD-11's. We will replace the 50 737-200's that are going from MCO to CVG starting in 2006 with new 100 seaters (Fred Reid likes the A318 supposedly----he introduced Airbus planes to Lufthansa). We have more cash than most airlines and (all except American---which has $2.8 Billion in cash, but is burning it faster) and we have the best borrowing power around. Management hasn't asked us yet to take a pay cut----which by the way is a lot more pay than you will ever have at Comair. The arbitrator is about to give his ruling on whether or not people are still "scared to fly" and not scared to pay for expensive tickets---which might stop the furloughs or bring some back. While your RJ's are expanding----and other companies like Skywest and Chitaqua take your flying (ooops----scope hurts you too, right??? WHAAAAA!! ha ha) you get more and more of a chance of staying put. Sounds like we are hurting, huh? Yes, we have some furloughs and they will be back sooner than later, but you people don't want to help us like we helped you on your UNSUCCESSFUL strike that cost our company $250 million and gave you hardly anything in return. We will be expanding just like you-----we have a new LCC in the works that will fight Southwest and Airtran---in 757's, at Mainline rates. Our 737-200's are going back to CVG. Gas prices and weak winter loads are going to force United to give up routes, and we'll get them and expand. That's the way it is. We're not crying over here, we were just wondering if you would help us the way we helped you. Doesn't sound like it. I bet you will be crying eventually when you line up on the taxiway behind 10 of our 767-ER's and think about your next leg to Moline. Caution wake turbulence Spinproof----you had your chance.

Bye Bye----General Lee

 

[MetroSheriff]

metrosheriff-

what does your sig mean?

Magister is 'teacher' I think

Eventus I'm guessing is 'experience

Stultorum? 'Best' or 'greatest'? perhaps

Eventus Stultorum Magister = Experience is the master of fools

A looser translation is: Fools must be taught by experience

 

[spinproof]

No new airframes until 2005???? and you say the" Replacement Jet" is the flavor of the month...HA-HA..uh..you were serious...no wait... wait really my juvenile soda went up my nose...wait ..no wait.. ha-ha-ha.....sorry just a kid playing with my dads computer!!!!

So what are you guys that don't fly the great big jets, that don't have a job doing tomorrow....hey I'd just like to help... I heard that my dad has a opening down at the "Super" Wal-Mart...I'd be glad to recommend you..

Now I have to warn you he does expect you to work more than a six hour duty day...but then it will only be until you guys get your big new planes you have on order...its just temporary...its just temporary...its just temporary...now click your heels three times!

DE-NILE: a river in Africa or the present state of Delta furloughees! Next on .......sorry i have to go to my meaningless flying job that really doesn't pay me that much...but hey..IT DOES PAY.

 

[NYRANGERS]

No new airframes until 2005???? and you say the" Replacement Jet" is the flavor of the month...HA-HA..uh..you were serious...no wait... wait really my juvenile soda went up my nose...wait ..no wait.. ha-ha-ha.....sorry just a kid playing with my dads computer!!!!

So what are you guys that don't fly the great big jets, that don't have a job doing tomorrow....hey I'd just like to help... I heard that my dad has a opening down at the "Super" Wal-Mart...I'd be glad to recommend you..

Now I have to warn you he does expect you to work more than a six hour duty day...but then it will only be until you guys get your big new planes you have on order...its just temporary...its just temporary...its just temporary...now click your heels three times!

DE-NILE: a river in Africa or the present state of Delta furloughees! Next on .......sorry i have to go to my meaningless flying job that really doesn't pay me that much...but hey..IT DOES PAY.

How come everytime you post something and I get an e mail about it, my computer starts pulling up the same window over and over. This locks up my computer and I have to restart it. This has happened twice, and both times it was your post that did it.

If you are doing it please stop. I would ask the moderator to look into this please. You have a great website and this get heated enough without some guy sending a lockout program through his response.

PS. has this happened to anyone else?

 

[MetroSheriff]

Spinproof doesn't sound like a juvenile to me. He does sound childish, however.

He sounds like regional lifer with a big chip on his shoulder. He is consumed with jealously for those who "made it" to the big time. He revels in his victim role so he doesn't have to face his own shortcomings. Right now he is making the most of his perceived "opportunity" to kick the "mainliners" (his words from another post) while they are down.

I wouldn't bother engaging him. He is green with envy for what you have acheived. Let your success be the retort to his childish tauntings.

 

[spinproof]

NYRANGERS

Sorry I forgot I had the the " DELTA MAINLINE MINDLESS-CONTROL and no original thoughts" knob set to on. I will now return your thoughts to you and your MEC.

Please accept my sincere apology and don't make this any harder than it has to be because my superiors don't like trouble and well ..lets just leave it at that.

Have a nice day and we'll send you a few bridge tokens in the mail!

 

[trainerjet]

"Spinproof" sounds like a guy that the other Comair pilots should be real proud to have on their property.

And to the guy asking on another thread about Air Wisconsin or Comair.....the fact that Comair would hire someone like "spinproof" should answer any questions you might have.

Surplus 1, you must be so proud of your little protege.

 

[spinproof]

trainerpants

..that is really hurtful..I'm really upset by your comments. I sure hope no one from COMAIR reads this because I could be in real trouble.

I'm really bummed I've let down my MEC, my fellow pilots and most of all you trainerpants...how can I ever win your respect...Hey I know lets go to Dennys I'll buy!

 

[NYRANGERS]

Re: NYRANGERS

Sorry I forgot I had the the " DELTA MAINLINE MINDLESS-CONTROL and no original thoughts" knob set to on. I will now return your thoughts to you and your MEC.

Please accept my sincere apology and don't make this any harder than it has to be because my superiors don't like trouble and well ..lets just leave it at that.

Have a nice day and we'll send you a few bridge tokens in the mail!

?????????????

I was not sure if it was my computer acting up, but it has happened twice on the same thred.

On another note...........There is no way this guy is a pilot.

I may not agree with anything Surplus writes, but he is definatley passionate about what he believes and is a pilot. We should not compare the two.

This no-talent-a$$-clown spinprof, is obviously an imposter. I hope if you are a pilot we can all learn your identiy so as to not have any other pilot group contamenated by your misguided nonsense.