Comair MEC burning bridges with Delta?

[skydiverdriver]

So, why won't anyone even ATTEMPT to answer my question? NYRANGERS probably thinks he answered it, but he did not. It's a very simple question, and nobody will even try to answer me. NYRANGERS apparently didn't understand it, and needs to read it again.

 

[Caveman]

General Lee wrote:

"There was talk about a staple way back when, but your senior guys wanted date of hire senority. None of our 10,000 pilots at the time wanted that. The senior guys at Comair and ASA ruined it for everyone else by requesting that."

Not true. Provide just one document from any official Comair/ASA source that requested/demanded/asked for a DOH merge. This is one of the lies that has been passed around so much people now think that it's a true statement. All our MEC asked for was a PID. That means we felt that the lists should have been merged and we wanted the normal sequence of events to take place that would have had the union look at it and then attempt to provide a fair and equitable combined list WITH NO WINDFALL FOR ANY GROUP. The PID was denied out of hand. No one ever officially discussed how the lists should have been merged. I grant you that there were lots of folks on various message boards discussing how they would like to see it done, but that was nothing more than a barroom argument and it wasn't from any official ASA/Comair source. Please don't continue to promulgate that rumor any longer. It serves no purpose other than to be devisive and on it's face it is patently untrue.

 

[9rj9]

Delta needs to look within

I see the DAL guys are whining about Comair not allowing them jobs without giving up their numbers, yet they see nothing wrong with their own MEC giving us up to 49% of their flying. The junior DAL guys are getting sold out and the blame is directed toward a handfull of low paying jobs few would take anyway. Whats next relaxing the 70 seat cap, and the 90 seater ? If I were junior at Delta I would worry about my own house burning down instead of tearing down the regionals.

 

[rjcap]

The senior guys at Comair and ASA ruined it for everyone else by requesting that."

The only thing ruined are the careers of the 1,000 + Delta pilots who have been furloughed for an undetermined amount of time. You can lay blame for this at the door of the Delta MEC.

 

[Lumber Yak]

RJcap,

You can shift blame all you want - the real issue is how furluoghed Delta pilots are being treated... Comair continues to hire pilots but refuses to consider Delta pilots on a preferential basis - insists that they resign their seniority numbers... Doesn't Delta own Comair? ASA is helpful and Comair is not.

Fact: Comair MEC's refusal to consider furloughed Delta pilots for hiring has hurt its relationship with the Delta MEC. Most Delta pilots are outraged considering the help Delta pilots provided during the unsuccessful Comair strike. Furloughed pilots are being used as bargaining chips.

Result: Comair pilots will receive no preferential treatement for Delta hiring in the future (although ASA pilots will receive such treatment). If you are a junior Comair pilot with aspirations of flying for Delta one day (maybe years down the line), you should not be happy with your elected MEC and their actions.

 

[skydiverdriver]

MR Yak,
You are assuming that everyone agrees that Delta pilots helped Comair pilots with their strike. This is a point of disagreement, and is not a "fact."

 

[General Lee]

Ok, here I go again.

Caveman: How do I know the senior guys wanted date of hire seniority? Because I was there. ASA's number 1 pilot ( I believe he is in charge of the CRJ program now) told me on a jumpseat from CLE to ATL in 1998 that he believed he would finish out his career as a Captain on the 737-800 flying to Central and South America from ATL---as a Delta Captain---and he was in his upper 50's then. ASA's MEC told people he thought he could "slip in" to MD-11 FO seat from his CRJ Capt. spot. Then there was the "jumping up and down" of the whole pilot group when they thought they were going to get ALPA's senority merging policy in mid 1999. I saw it---they were all jumping up and down with glee until they realized that it would not happen. A lot of what your PID etc said was to use certain ratios etc to make it fair. Guess what? Going from a CRJ Capt to a 767FO over top people that interviewed is not right, and it would have been a winfall. Look at the salary differences----a 2nd year MD88 FO makes more than a 12 year RJ Capt. That is the way it is---good or bad.

9RJ9:
First of all, the 49% number is wrong. The actual number is 44%, and if Delta were hurting that bad to move it to 49%, Comair and ASA would likely be sold off. Delta has $2.6 Billion in cash and another $2 Billion it could mortage if needed. You won't see your 49%. The reason the MEC set it at 44% is to set the bar again.
They will not renegotiate a number again for several years, giving us time to reorganize and prepare for the next contract. As far as the MEC selling us out or whatever, we had a no furlough clause that seemed acceptable, and nobady saw 9-11 coming. You have to admit, as I have already, that unfortunately 9-11 did cause major harm to all of us, and our company had to furlough some high paying people---pilots. Ok, fine. The arbitrator in our current case said back in May of last year that he allowed it because "people were scared to fly." Well, he is now reviewing that and should come up with a new order soon. The clause in our contract stated that regardless of the economy or unprofitability of Delta---No furloughs. People aren't scared to fly, they are scared to buy expensive tickets. That is not our fault, and our pilots will return sooner than later. Then we will hire again, and there will be a lot of people who will not forget how Comair WAS NOT there for us, like we were there for YOU during YOUR UNSUCCESSFUL STRIKE. None of you ever respond to that. I never heard a thank you. I paid a lot of money to help you, and now you can't help my friends that are furloughed. Thanks a lot.

RJCAP: So, you think our furloughed guys or girls have "ruined carrers?" I fly with a lot of 767 Capt's that were with Western and were furloughed in the 80's for up to 7 years. They now make more than 5 of your Captains combined. Were they ruined?
I think that was a cocky remark. I bet our furloughed people love reading that they are "ruined." They were caught up in something unbeleiveable (9-11), and they will eventually come back and be secure again. I haven't forgot about them, and I think they will not forget about what Comair's MEC thinks about them.

Spinproof: Thanks for playing. I am glad you don't work for Comair----I couldn't believe I spent money for someone like you slamming people out of work. That's all for now.

Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[DAL737FO]

You can say that again. My career isn't even close to being ruined. Set back...yes ruined....no. It took me close to 7 months but I'm back flying and I got another company paid type rating to boot (G1159). Delta will stick around. Matter of fact compared to the rest of the hub and spoke industry we are doing quite well. I'll be back and I'll remember this for the future. This has been quite the learning experience.

GII/GIII FO
formerly DAL737FO

 

[MetroSheriff]

MR Yak,
You are assuming that everyone agrees that Delta pilots helped Comair pilots with their strike. This is a point of disagreement, and is not a "fact."

If you disagree then why don't you have the MEC return the money donated to Family Fund?

 

[Lumber Yak]

Skydiverdriver,

Like Metrosheriff was saying, I was referring to the money donated to the family fund. Do you remember that? How much money was donated on your pilots' behalf?

Do you think Comair pilots would fund relief for Delta furloughees now? I didn't think so.