Comair MEC burning bridges with Delta?

[PCL_128]

You are correct sir. I didn't read far enough. It still doesn't change the fact that PLC_128 is insane.

Even I wouldn't argue with that

 

[Caveman]

FlyingSig & Skyslug,

You are absolutely correct when you assert that the DAL pilots had no control over jumpseat policy made by management during our strike. I also agree that it would have been foolhardy for a DAL Captain to wilfully violate that policy.

My whole point during this argument about Comair pilots allegedly being against hiring furloughees is that we are equally powerless to change the policy regarding seniority resignation. It's managments decision and just like the jumpseat policy during our strike we are either unable to effect a change or unwilling to spend the negotiating capital necessary to get it changed.

Give us the same understanding that we did the DAL pilots. It's not under our control and the DAL MEC knows that. When the DAL MEC demands that we engage in some symbolic gesture or face retribution it does nothing to foster any sense of goodwill and it certainly doesn't set the stage for meaningful dialogue towards resolving the problems between the mainline and the WO pilot groups.

 

[winged princess]

The Delta MEC wanted the Comair MEC to go to our managment and ask for preferential hiring. In return, they would give Comair pilots 'preferential interviews' after the military guys applying.

1. The Comair MEC and the pilot group does not do the hiring at Comair.
2. Comair management made the decision not to hire someone who is on another seniority list, because they are trying to cut costs, just as other airlines are.
3. When would that preferential interview happen? Five years from now, 10 years? After Delta calls back their pilots....you tell me.
4. ASA has hired only a few from the Delta lay offs. The ones who came from ASA to begin with.
5. The Delta MEC admitted that only a few would be willing to
take a job at Comair. I am guessing, not enough pay....
6. Yes, ASA and Delta and Comair are owned by the same company. So, if Delta wanted Comair to hire their pilots, they would tell Comair to do so...

Why is there so much discussion about this? These are the facts.

If the Delta pilot group would have insisted that ASA and Comair be added to their pilot group, years ago, then their would be no furloughs at Delta. But, they did not want scooter trash on their list....

Now, Delta management is a happy camper! They are downsizing the expensive Delta product and upsizing the low priced DCI...

One last thing. I am not saying every Delta pilot is so greedy, but I was sitting in the jumpseat of a MD-88 prior to Delta's pilot contract being signed. We were taxiing out behind a Delta Express and the 88 crew laughed and said, " Can you believe that the Express pilots think we will strike to bring them up to our level of pay and benefits?"

enough said....see you around campus...

 

[sleepy]

The Delta MEC wanted the Comair MEC to go to our managment and ask for preferential hiring. In return, they would give Comair pilots 'preferential interviews' after the military guys applying.

1. The Comair MEC and the pilot group does not do the hiring at Comair.
2. Comair management made the decision not to hire someone who is on another seniority list, because they are trying to cut costs, just as other airlines are.
3. When would that preferential interview happen? Five years from now, 10 years? After Delta calls back their pilots....you tell me.
4. ASA has hired only a few from the Delta lay offs. The ones who came from ASA to begin with.
5. The Delta MEC admitted that only a few would be willing to
take a job at Comair. I am guessing, not enough pay....
6. Yes, ASA and Delta and Comair are owned by the same company. So, if Delta wanted Comair to hire their pilots, they would tell Comair to do so...

Why is there so much discussion about this? These are the facts.

If the Delta pilot group would have insisted that ASA and Comair be added to their pilot group, years ago, then their would be no furloughs at Delta. But, they did not want scooter trash on their list....

Now, Delta management is a happy camper! They are downsizing the expensive Delta product and upsizing the low priced DCI...

One last thing. I am not saying every Delta pilot is so greedy, but I was sitting in the jumpseat of a MD-88 prior to Delta's pilot contract being signed. We were taxiing out behind a Delta Express and the 88 crew laughed and said, " Can you believe that the Express pilots think we will strike to bring them up to our level of pay and benefits?"

enough said....see you around campus...

That is all true. But, your MEC could have passed a resolution asking your management to hire the furloughed DAL pilots without requiring them to resign seniority. It would have been a symbolic gesture and would have cost your pilot group nothing.

For some reason your leadership thought they would be able to get something now in exchange for a symbolic gesture. Instead of getting anything now, your pilot group will likely suffer later when you need something from the DALPA guys. And someday you will.

As I said before, that is your MEC's business. I just don't understand it.

 

[skydiverdriver]

And, a couple of years ago, asking YOUR company to integrate us would have been a symbolic gesture, which would have made it much less likely that any Delta pilots would have been furloughed. You guys keep saying that they never would have done it, so why didn't you try? I've been asking this for years and nobody seems to want to try to answer it.

 

[sleepy]

And, a couple of years ago, asking YOUR company to integrate us would have been a symbolic gesture, which would have made it much less likely that any Delta pilots would have been furloughed. You guys keep saying that they never would have done it, so why didn't you try? I've been asking this for years and nobody seems to want to try to answer it.

Actually, I am at ASA. Yes, you are right that approval of the PID would have been the best way to avoid all of this. But, it didn't happen, it is water under the bridge. Of course, had we been integrated, many current ASA and Comair pilots would be on the street right now.

I am pretty sure that the DALPA guys have learned from this mistake. The real question is how do DALPA, ASA and Comair move beyond this and work to keep all DAL flying in house? We at ASA and Comair need to work with DALPA and each other. A little good will would have gone a long way toward healing the wounds.

We all need to move beyond these petty battles and realize who our common enemy is: It is not ALPA, DALPA, etc. it is the portifolio of carriers plan.

 

[NYRANGERS]

And, a couple of years ago, asking YOUR company to integrate us would have been a symbolic gesture,


If you want to integrate with us "evil" Delta pilots, it's easy.


Get a frikin' interview!!!!

If you want a free ride to something you may not deserve, SUE.

 

[Otto]

Gentlemen,
I've remained silent on this issue so far but I have to weigh in. I think managment would have nixed the idea of hiring furloughed DAL guys anyway so I don't think it's worth all the commotion it's caused by having the CMR pilot group not support it. Many of my fellow CMR pilots feel otherwise and I respect their opinions as I do the guys at DAL. I'll be honest and say I'd love to work for DAL someday but I resent a blanket policy that punishes all pilots at CMR when there was not even a vote taken on this issue. When I say I'd love to work at DAL, I don't speak for everyone...I know plenty of pilots who are more than happy to have a career at CMR. The amount of animosity between CMR and DAL pilots is ridiculous. I don't know...maybe staring down the road at a year in Iraq has a way of putting the important things in perspective.

Anyway, one point I want to make to the Delta guys here. I'd be all for a true reciprocating pref hiring plan between DAL and CMR/ASA but I'll tell you one of the big problems that most CMR pilots I talk to see with this...when hiring begins at DAL (in 5-10 years) most CMR pilots don't believe they would REALLY get any pref treatment. In other words, DAL would not hold their end of the bargain and the regional pilots would get screwed again as they historically have in these arrangements. That's the general perception. From what I heard, when the CMR and DAL MECs met, one of the questions posed to DAL was would CMR/ASA pilots get hired before military guys? The answer from the DAL MEC was not necessarily. CMR MEC asked "so you would not give an ALPA pilot priority over a non-ALPA pilot?" The answer was along the lines of "that's just something you'll have to get over". If ALPA is a true union that treats all ALPA pilots the same, how on earth can you explain this? Does this not reinforce the suspicions CMR/ASA pilots have had all along that they (and all regional pilots) are indeed second class citizens in the ALPA kingdom? It's a reasonable question awaitiing a reasonable response...Anyone?

 

[NYRANGERS]

Gentlemen,

In other words, DAL would not hold their end of the bargain and the regional pilots would get screwed again as they historically have in these arrangements. Does this not reinforce the suspicions CMR/ASA pilots have had all along that they (and all regional pilots) are indeed second class citizens in the ALPA kingdom? It's a reasonable question awaitiing a reasonable response...Anyone?

I was a regional pilot and was hired at Delta at age 27. I had 5 ASA guys and 4 comair guys in my class. The breakdown was around 60%-40%, civilian pilots being the 60. Some pilots came from other majors, but the majority were from the regionals.

This, (regional guys are secopnd to military guys thing) is just another spin the RJDC (otherwise known as your mec) uses to try to convince you to stay at comair. If your mec can destroy your chances at moving to a major, they will have many more career pilots in which to forward there agenda.

 

[Otto]

I was a regional pilot and was hired at Delta at age 27. I had 5 ASA guys and 4 comair guys in my class. The breakdown was around 60%-40%, civilian pilots being the 60. Some pilots came from other majors, but the majority were from the regionals.

This, (regional guys are secopnd to military guys thing) is just another spin the RJDC (otherwise known as your mec) uses to try to convince you to stay at comair. If your mec can destroy your chances at moving to a major, they will have many more career pilots in which to forward there agenda.

NY,
My point is that under the proposed reciprocal preferential hiring scheme, if ALPA regional pilots are not given any priority over guys coming straight from the military then how is that preferential? What do CMR pilots gain by signing up? Nothing...and that's why we were asking for a little more. Why is that so unreasonable?

As for your case, you know Delta historically hires military and at the time you were hired, there simply wasn't the military supply of pilots they needed. I can assure you that when hiring begins again at DAL, there will no longer be a shortage of fighter/C-5 jocks lining up. That's not to say you don't deserve to be there...I'm sure you're a very competant pilot...it's just that Delta has the rep of prefering mil.

As for that mil/regional thing, in case you didn't notice I'm both...I realize I (and all of us) are as much a product of timing as of skill. With that said, I'm not too thrilled about my career options being limited by a big pissing match between two giant egos. You say that wouldn't happen if we had just agreed to hire. We simply stated that we wanted a little bit more in the deal and it was open for further discussion...the reply we got was an effort to ban all future hiring of CMR pilots at Delta. If the DAL pilot group has to resort to blackmail and coercian of this sort, I think it's low and it punishes the wrong group of people. Oh well...there's always AA and FedEx. In the meantime, life at CMR is a lot better than you might think. Some union...what a brotherhood huh?

Fly Safe!