Comair MEC burning bridges with Delta?

[Flyingdutchman]

Tnx for your reply.

Ok, let's suppose that DAL will recall their pilots from comair.. So what? I'm sure there will be a lot of guys to fill their empty seats at comair right?

Bud it remains big problem...

Goodluck to ya all!



---------------------
''Always remember you fly an airplane with your head, not your hands. Never let an airplane take you somewhere your brain didn't get to five minutes earlier.''

 

[jetflyer]

Lowly Comair Pilot's views:

I say hire all of the Delta pilots on furlough. Every one. I think there should just be stipulations as to their recall to Delta. Say something we can handle like 10-15 a month MAX recalled.

I don't see how this would hurt Comair, if this was done. They can easily handle 10-15 A MONTH. I know they'd have to retrain someone to replace every Delta pilot recalled, but how about have those costs come from Delta, instead of Comair?? That would work. The money is all reflected on Delta's books anyways.

Our MEC is obviously trying to do what they think is best for all of us Comair pilots. They want scope relief etc. Makes sense. I think with negotiations, something can and should be worked out. There are too many people on the streets, and it sux really really bad. Too many starving mouths out there.

Jet

 

[Lumber Yak]

Jetflyer,

I agree with you. I like your attitude - now, if you could just convince the top 100 pilots in your company - the ones with influence on your MEC.... Also, do yourself a favor, when you see random Delta pilots, share your views - you might be able to change some of the negative feelings toward Comair that are so prevalent now among Delta pilots.

 

[Nindiri]

Lumber Yak

Who the hell are you to be advising other people how to run their companies? You're not even an airline pilot, and as you said, you don't know much about airline politics. The people at DAL, ASA, and CMR are quite capable of taking care of their own business without your "expert" advice. If you have a legitimate question, then ask it without telling everyone what they should do. And get rid of your condescending attitude.

 

[Freight Dog]

Miller22,

I like that! "no airline wants a block of pilots who are guaranteed not to stay with the airline." ROFLMAO!!!
I remember a couple years ago that the main focus of Comair's recruitment drive was "owned by Delta, and an easy way to get hired by Delta." I believed it too because a great majority of pilots DID NOT aspire to fly CL-65's for the rest of their careers when they can make twice as much in their 2nd or 3rd year at Delta flying a B737. Before 9/11, you would almost never hear up and coming pilots aspire to finish their careers at Comair.
I also know that there were tons of pilots jumping ship to Delta from Comair. That is the nature of the REGIONAL airline business - younger crowd wants to make it to the majors, and especially "within the family." So when you talk about a block of pilots who are "guaranteed not to stay with the airline," you must be referring to many youngins and junior folks because if Delta started hiring tomorrow, you'd have a whole load of Comair people trying to beat Delta's doors down to get in.

Sure, Comair is a good airline, and for some it very well may be a career airline especially now during difficult times. The industry is cyclical. So when the majors start hiring again, you will see Comair pilots leaving "in blocks" again.

I don't see much difference between hiring furloughees from your MOTHER COMPANY or hiring young people who aspire to fly for a major. I can also bet you that if your MEC did in fact support hiring of Delta furloughees w/o making them resign, you wouldn't see a huge flock of furloughees running to Comair. From the gist of it, it was a largely symbolic gesture.

Secondly, CMR MEC using furloughed ALPA brothers and sisters as pawns to extort "scope relief" from DAL MEC is LOW, and I am glad that it won't be forgotten. Look at NWA and Pinnacle. What kind of hiring arrangement did they make? It could have easily been done the same way, and it would have been a definite positive step in getting many things resolved. Instead, CMR MEC chose a different path... we'll see how it plays out.

As for negotiating scope limits, it's the nature of the business. Comair is a REGIONAL airline with a lot of jets. As your own company website says.. you are a DELTA CONNECTION despite the fact that many of your senior pilots (including your MEC and his RJDC cronies) refuse to accept that. Delta Air Lines pilots have every right to protect their flying from being farmed out to the lowest bidder, just as you do. It could be a strike-item if you make it be one. In any case, Delta pilots did get scope clause protections, and you didn't. I guess it wasn't a strike-item for you. That's why you have a non-ALPA non-WO carrier flying your old routes under Delta colors out of MCO. Secondly, at the time of signing of the contract, Delta pilots outnumbered you almost 5 to 1 if not more. So even if your MEC was allowed in Delta's negotiations, and a step further, if your ENTIRE membership was allowed to vote, the end result would still be the same. Would you still be crying "WAAAAHHHHHHHHH, ALPA failed in its DFR! I'm suing because I didn't get mine! WAAAAAHHHHHHH!!!!"


It's a disgrace to our profession..........

 

[skydiverdriver]

Hey Sig,
Even though you weren't there, why don't you try to answer my question anyway? Is it because the answer may take away any arguements you have against mine? Why is everyone so afraid of this simple little question? And who cares if I was here or not, that's irrelivant. Again you answer a question with another question.

I have a question for you, since you refused my other one, perhaps this is a bit easier. If, Comair pilots tried to help Delta pilots get special employment rights given to nobody else, how can the Delta MEC that won't be there when Delta starts hiring again, guarantee that we will be considered for our generosity? Of course, you think we should just do it with nothing in return after all you did for us during the strike. Again, another question that will not be answered.

 

[General Lee]

Nindiri,

I am a Delta Pilot, and Lumber yak can say anything he wants---this is a public forum, so lay off. Nice attitude. I guess you agree with the Comair MEC. You guys think you are trying to enhance your carreers at Comair. Well, at the same time you are ensuring that you stay there. I can't believe you are rolling the dice and betting that the company that owns your company will continue to do poorly. Delta is the strongest left out there (besides Southwest). We have more money (2.6 bil) in cash and another 2 bil to mortgage. When this Iraq thing ends and the economy rebounds---which it will---we will get our furloughs back and grow. We will get our remaining 737-800's orders back in 2005, and eventually get 90 or 100 seaters---like A318's. But, you will all watch them taxi by---and believe me a lot of our guys won't forget this. And, quit telling people not to comment on a public forum---that is idiotic.

Otto_pilot,

You don't get it either. Delta owns ASA and Comair. ASA is allowing Delta pilots to go to the BOTTOM of their list and not give up their rights at Delta. Comair will not, even though our MEC tried to discuss preferential hiring over at Delta when we start hiring again. So, to wrap it up, ASA pilots will eventually benefit and Comair guys will continue to hear "Caution Wake Turbulence" as they watch former ASA pilots take off in Delta 767-300's. Got it? The Comair guys should enjoy the 25 or so CR7's for the next 4-5 years during negotiations. And, the arbitrator will bring back the furloughs eventually---sooner than later.

Bye Bye----General Lee

 

[Otto_Pilot]

Calm down.

General Lee,

With all due respect sir, if you talk-down to your F/Os in the same manner with which you're addressing the pilots on this forum you can KEEP your Delta seat.

I dont work at Comair. I'm a furloughed TWA refuge. I would feel privileged to fly for Comair though.

Quit looking down your nose at the men and women who make the CHOICE to spend their careers at Comair. Just because YOU chose a different road, doesnt make it the RIGHT road.

The Comair pilot leadership made their decision. Its their bed. They will sleep in it or they will choose to enter into negotiations again. There's no point rehashing it over and over again and bitterly threatening the Comair pilots over the internet.

Call your MEC chairman and tell him to go out and get a deal with the Comair MEC. There's a deal out there -- a negotiated deal. Not one that is thrust down the throats of either pilot group.

Hope I wasnt out of line, but I think you're being a bit hard on these guys.

 

[CRJFlyer]

blah,blah,blah,blah...This industry sucks, blah,blah,blah,blah..**CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** Iraqis..blah,blah,blah....

Baseball season starts in 4 1/2 months and my arm feels great, beer still tastes good, and I found a new girl with a sweet bod..what else is there??!!!

Don't care what I fly as long as it gets me there, and when everyone here goes through real personal hardship rather then the stupid MEC's denying your or anybody's RIGHT TO A JOB then maybe you will all realize that there are worse things in the world to lose than a job at a MAJOR airline or a regional or whatever...(I'm not for or against DAL by the way, just stop bitching)

While we're at it why don't we discuss our taxes, 401K, mutual funds, then maybe I'll die of boredom...But wait the Raiders are up by 7....I'm goin to the bar to finish watching the game with my friends who don't fly and have better things to talk about.

 

[miller22]

Quoted from Frieght Dog

Secondly, CMR MEC using furloughed ALPA brothers and sisters as pawns to extort "scope relief" from DAL MEC is LOW, and I am glad that it won't be forgotten.

Unions epitomize extortion! Thats how they survive. "Give us what we want or we'll quit working en masse." Threats are what fill the coffers. Its the way its always been, and probably always will. Everybody for the common good of the union. Thats the reality of the labor market.
Besides, scope for you may be good, but scope for regional drivers is bad. Of course Comair wants to grow. Thats not extortion, thats job security. There's two sides to every story, and scope is a perfect example. In fact it seems to me DALPA is extorting Delta into writing scope clauses. "Sign your name to this here scope clause, Mullin, and we'll offer our 'protection' from a Delta pilot strike." Or how about the fact that no Comair pilot has a choice whether or not to pay union dues. The very same union dues that go towards ALPA negotiators creating scope clauses to stunt your company's growth. You call it job security, I call it extortion. You call "scope relief" extortion, I call it job security. Fine Line.

Delta pilots did get scope clause protections, and you didn't. I guess it wasn't a strike-item for you. That's why you have a non-ALPA non-WO carrier flying your old routes under Delta colors out of MCO.

CHQ replaced Comair aircraft who were moved to DCA and LGA to replace Delta and ACA aircraft. So instead of 25% full CRJ's out of MCO, there are 80% full CRJ's out of LGA, JFK, DCA and BOS. Not to mention the business traveller's money in that market. Delta as a whole could make tons more money by using their own hard to come by CRJ's on the high yield markets of the northeast, than in the low fare, short stage length Florida markets. And instead of pulling out of Florida alltogether, CHQ is flying the intra-Florida routes to fill mainline seats. Its all a matter of a finite number of RJ's owned, and where to dispatch those aircraft to maximize profit. Besides, CHQ pilots aren't out to stop Comair from growing. DALPA on the other hand...

you are a DELTA CONNECTION despite the fact that many of your senior pilots (including your MEC and his RJDC cronies) refuse to accept that.

Unions survive on emotion, not business sense. No other organization (excluding mud-slinging politics) disrespects their opponents this way. Its blatently unprofessional and "a discrace to our profession" if I may use your words. Unions don't exist without an enemy, and when there isn't a clear enemy, they create one. Comair makes a convenient target for ALPA so you start hearing things like "RJDC wants all Delta pilots families to starve," and "The Shameless RJDC." (Actual topics from ALPA message board)

"WAAAAHHHHHHHHH, ALPA failed in its DFR! I'm suing because I didn't get mine! WAAAAAHHHHHHH!!!!"

I do believe it was the Delta pilots crying foul because they got furloughed and Comair is still hiring. "Not fair!" "We own Comair. We should be flying those planes" "Not Fair!" Fortunately DALPA doesn't own Comair, Delta does. If DALPA wants to demand Comair hire them or they'll go on strike, then it'll probably happen. But isn't that extortion?