Comair MEC burning bridges with Delta?

[CRJFlyer]

Flying sure was more enjoyable when there were no contracts, scope clauses, MEC's,....I'm kinda glad I have about a billion more interests than just worrying about whos screwing who..Honestly I'm more excited about my upcoming baseball season (not softball)than I am about some stupid grievance victory or even the fact that we are expanding..Unfortunately flying is the only way to pay the bills...so I have to deal with this legality crap. And listen to people hating another pilot group, and even worse hating another person just because they fly for the "wrong company". It's a whole lot of fun when an old man hates my 24 year old a@@ just because I fly for Comair, but if this job is all some people have to think about then I feel awfully sorry for them.

Personally I fly because I enjoy it and couldn't imagine working nine to five like some of my friends...unfortunately its some of the people in this industry that make it just a job..and in turn make my life miserable...atleast until the next baseball season.

 

[CRJFlyer]

my last post wasn't directed at anyone on this board...just the whole topic in general....and the fact that it gets pretty boring listening to the same gripes in ops and then on this board..

 

[Lumber Yak]

I agree with you CRJflyer - too many gripes in general. However, the main issue is whether your MEC has just screwed your ability to advance to Delta if you so wish (not everyone wants that option).

Essentially, your (elected?) MEC turned down Delta's offer for preferential treatment when interviewing for Delta slots (when things improve in 3-5 years) in return for preferential treatment of furloughed Delta pilots. Delta's MEC asked ASA's MEC for the same - and it was granted. As your ASA counterparts above would agree, your MEC got greedy and demanded too much too soon - and upset the Delta MEC (many of the same pilots who are involved in the interviews). Your MEC demanded "one-seniority list or nothing..."

It will make more sense to you in the future. To put it in a context that you will appreciate, Delta 757 pay would likely buy better baseball tickets for your entire family than CRJ pay. You wouldn't have to sit in the nose-bleed section... Basically, your top Comair pilots (MEC people) are cancelling your OPTION for upgrading to Delta some day in the future. That is pretty ballsey if you ask me... Well, if you WANT to fly for a major or major-to-be in the future, you always have Southwest or Jetblue - wait, how big are their pools?

Good luck to all involved!

 

[CRJFlyer]

Well I pretty much do agrre with ya...I know that Delta is probably never going to be an option for me because of all this....its just sad that people pass judgement because of all this contract stuff...rather than who would be fun to fly with

 

[Dieterly]

Don't worry boys, Delta might not be around in 5-7 years...

 

[Lumber Yak]

Wrong Dieterly - Delta has the best financial position of any major. Delta has considerable cash (in the $billions) and access to more if needed through lines of credit (unlike Continental which is constrained). It is true that Southwest, Airtran and JetBlue continue to erode market share, but Delta's situation is far different from that of UAL or even AMR. Delta will very likely be around - and the ASA pilots will benefit...

 

[PositiveRate]

I am not an airline pilot or employee, so I don't know much about airline politics. Would someone clear this up for me?

Lumber Yak...you sure opinionated for someone on the outside. Why don't you let us worry about our own career advancement instead of "telling us how it is" based on a conversation overheard at a driving range.

Delta, Comair and ASA are all on the same side. Most of this crap is just kool-aid.

 

[skydiverdriver]

PCL,
He did not demand elimination of scope. I don't know why you Delta guys keep saying this. You are like the liberals that run the major tv networks. Just keep saying it over, and over, and over, and perhaps the minions of simpletons will believe you. Good luck to you.

 

[trainerjet]

Just keep saying it over, and over, and over, and perhaps the minions of simpletons will believe you.

Sounds to me like you are talking about Surplus 1.

 

[Lumber Yak]

PositiveRate,

Last I heard this was an informational forum.... I was just relaying what I had heard - and I had questions. Do I have to ask for your permission to post questions on this forum? Sometimes the truth hurts, doesn't it? Your MEC, the people who are representing you, have maybe poisoned the relationship between your MEC and Delta's. If you are a wannabe-Delta driver someday, that can't be good news. Not all Comair pilots want to fly for Delta, but I bet some do... They have a right to know what their elected MEC is doing to their chances for advancement. CRJflyer is an example - it sounded like he had no idea about the possible implications.

Good luck to all involved!

 

[PositiveRate]

Whatever. You're heresay "information" is just that.

Whether or not myself or any other Comair pilot moves on to the majors...in particular, Delta, will be our choice. Working for Comair or ASA will likely not make much of a difference if/when Delta starts hiring again. Anyone who believes that Comair pilots will never continue on to Delta or that the Freedom pilots will never move on to a major, or that "Southwest and JetBlue are erroding the industry" probably believed Al Gore when he said he invented the internet.

You're taking a relatively small bit of information and turning it into much ado about nothing. It's just political rhetoric. It's not a personal battle between Delta and DCI pilots. I haven't experienced anything to the contrary.

 

[NYRANGERS]

NYRANGERS:

The copy of the resolution from LEC 44 that I saw contained specific language that stated the hiring of CMR pilots was NOT supported in the future by the DAL MEC. Is this correct or was this a doctored copy of the resolution meant to anger CMR pilots?

I read about it on the DALPA forum. It looked legit, but with this situation you never know. The big point is that it is being discussed at lengh on our forum, but the majority is about returning the favor to the ASA guys.

 

[Lumber Yak]

PositiveRate,

I don't want to get into a back-and-forth argument with you. I was merely relaying what I had heard - and the Delta guys seemed quite IRATE from my close point of view. They sounded PI$$ED OFF....

How would you feel if you were a Delta pilot and found out that Comair, owned by Delta, was not helping out your furloughed friends despite the fact that ASA had done so? I suppose you wouldn't care - right? Sure.

The reference related to Southwest and JetBlue was that they are continuing to erode Delta's MARKET SHARE in certain East Coast markets with their low-cost model - that is a fact - most industry analysts would agree - and that is why Delta is responding by creating a low-fare carrier....

If you believe this is just political rhetoric, then maybe you should ask a random Delta pilot for his/her opinion. Doubt they view it the same way.

 

[DAL737FO]

Look it's fairly simple. ASA has a policy of not making a furloughee give his/her number up as part of the hiring process. The Delta furloughee's, I'm one, really appreciate the gesture. We, our MEC, asked for the same thing from the Comair MEC, he said sure...but how about giving up on some scope restrictions. What we wanted was pretty straight forward. You give our guys preferential treatment now and WHEN, it will happen again guys and gals, we at mainline start hiring again we will return the favor. No such luck. Now I've heard a lot of people state that the unions or pilots don't hire, management does. Well if you guys believe this then you will never make it to a flying job. I've witnessed first hand how a pilot can influence the hiring or not hiring of a pilot. I've called many of my friends that when to Comair in recent months to ask if they knew what was going on with the MEC's. Almost to a man they said no but the general mood is that mainline is not going to be hiring in the near future so they want all they can get now. O.K. fair enough but don't come crying when the worm turns. I have a feeling that the percentages of ASA guys compared to the percentages of Comair guys getting hired to Delta will be pretty heavily weighted on the ASA side of the house.

Well good luck to all,

GII/GIII FO
formerly known as DAL737FO

 

[cl-65link]

I warned ya. <sigh>

 

[Caveman]

Lumber Yak wrote:

"How would you feel if you were a Delta pilot and found out that Comair, owned by Delta, was not helping out your furloughed friends despite the fact that ASA had done so? I suppose you wouldn't care - right? Sure."

I wonder how they feel knowing that some of their mainline brethren are picking up open time while they are furloughed?

I wonder how the Comair pilots felt when the ONLY airline to deny them the jumpseat during their strike was DAL?

The snapshot version of events that you heard via third or fourth hand isn't accurate. The DAL MEC was combative, arrogant and argumentative during the meeting with the CMR MEC. He basically DEMANDED that we ask our management to grant them this favor. In return they would offer some undefined preferential hiring for CMR pilots if and when DAL ever starts to hire again. Our MEC simply said well that's nice but we didn't make the policy, our company did.

Why didn't the MEC demand that Ma Delta tell Comair to hire their guys without resigning their seniority? Because they know it isn't in DAL's best interests to do so. Why didn't the DAL MEC ask CMR management to change the policy? Because they know it isn't in Comair's best interest to do so. Why then did they demand that the Comair MEC do what the DAL MEC has thus far been impotent to change? So they could blame the CMR pilots for their own failure.

 

[NYRANGERS]

Lumber Yak wrote:

"
Why didn't the MEC demand that Ma Delta tell Comair to hire their guys without resigning their seniority? Because they know it isn't in DAL's best interests to do so. Why didn't the DAL MEC ask CMR management to change the policy? Because they know it isn't in Comair's best interest to do so. Why then did they demand that the Comair MEC do what the DAL MEC has thus far been impotent to change? So they could blame the CMR pilots for their own failure.

Same reason your bunch will not be hired. It is not in DAL's best interest to do so.

You do realize the DAL Captain in the interview is an ALPA rep??

Again, if your MEC supported hiring of furloughed guys, it does not mean it would happen. It would have been a simple gesture in good faith that would have gone a long way. ASA only has 13 Delta furloughed guys. Why do you silly guys think all 1060 furloughed guys would have come to comair?

It is not the comair pilots fault that furloughed Delta pilots can't be hired without resigning their number.
It IS the comair pilots fault that they "Don't support the hiring of furloughed Delta pilots".

It really is becoming pointless to argue this here, but 10000 Delta pilots will never forget this.

 

[Caveman]

NYRANGERS wrote:

"It IS the comair pilots fault that they "Don't support the hiring of furloughed Delta pilots"."

Nice try at the spin, but we in fact do support the preferential hiring of any furloughed ALPA pilot. If you have a problem with the seniority resignation, take it up with Delta and Comair management. It's their policy, not ours.

Your MEC told our MEC to succomb to their demands or he would tell the world that we were against hiring furloughed Delta pilots. Sorry, pal, but we will not be blackmailed or intimidated by BS spin and half truths.

Gee whiz, I guess I'll never be able to work for DAL mainline. I'll try to go on with life.........

 

[Rook]

Nice reply Cave.

First off I hope the new year is being good to you and your family and that life in CVG is going good for you.

It's too bad we can't take Rodney King's advice when he said...

OW!
GOD THAT HURTS!!!
STOP!
OUCH MY EYE!

But seriously. It's too bad that there has to be a rift between the regional and it's mainline. I for one was turned away from a Delta jumpseat during the strike. I don't hold any animosity, it's just that I'm surprised the mainline doesnt empathize with those of us struggling at the regional level. Not all of us were rich kids who could 'afford' a job flying a CRJ.

The RJ concept is around to stay. If we were all flying Turboprops, then the argument would be moot. (in my opinion)
We just want to be able to make a decent living. I'm not sure what the CMR MEC's reasoning was for turning down pref hiring at DAL but there's got to be more to the story. Comair had the 'stugots' to walk when they were being treated unfairly. It might happen again.

Rook
600' AGL.
Autopilot on.
'WHEW!'

 

[skydiverdriver]

Sorry..