Comair MEC burning bridges with Delta?

[PositiveRate]

Whatever. You're heresay "information" is just that.

Whether or not myself or any other Comair pilot moves on to the majors...in particular, Delta, will be our choice. Working for Comair or ASA will likely not make much of a difference if/when Delta starts hiring again. Anyone who believes that Comair pilots will never continue on to Delta or that the Freedom pilots will never move on to a major, or that "Southwest and JetBlue are erroding the industry" probably believed Al Gore when he said he invented the internet.

You're taking a relatively small bit of information and turning it into much ado about nothing. It's just political rhetoric. It's not a personal battle between Delta and DCI pilots. I haven't experienced anything to the contrary.

 

[NYRANGERS]

NYRANGERS:

The copy of the resolution from LEC 44 that I saw contained specific language that stated the hiring of CMR pilots was NOT supported in the future by the DAL MEC. Is this correct or was this a doctored copy of the resolution meant to anger CMR pilots?

I read about it on the DALPA forum. It looked legit, but with this situation you never know. The big point is that it is being discussed at lengh on our forum, but the majority is about returning the favor to the ASA guys.

 

[Lumber Yak]

PositiveRate,

I don't want to get into a back-and-forth argument with you. I was merely relaying what I had heard - and the Delta guys seemed quite IRATE from my close point of view. They sounded PI$$ED OFF....

How would you feel if you were a Delta pilot and found out that Comair, owned by Delta, was not helping out your furloughed friends despite the fact that ASA had done so? I suppose you wouldn't care - right? Sure.

The reference related to Southwest and JetBlue was that they are continuing to erode Delta's MARKET SHARE in certain East Coast markets with their low-cost model - that is a fact - most industry analysts would agree - and that is why Delta is responding by creating a low-fare carrier....

If you believe this is just political rhetoric, then maybe you should ask a random Delta pilot for his/her opinion. Doubt they view it the same way.

 

[DAL737FO]

Look it's fairly simple. ASA has a policy of not making a furloughee give his/her number up as part of the hiring process. The Delta furloughee's, I'm one, really appreciate the gesture. We, our MEC, asked for the same thing from the Comair MEC, he said sure...but how about giving up on some scope restrictions. What we wanted was pretty straight forward. You give our guys preferential treatment now and WHEN, it will happen again guys and gals, we at mainline start hiring again we will return the favor. No such luck. Now I've heard a lot of people state that the unions or pilots don't hire, management does. Well if you guys believe this then you will never make it to a flying job. I've witnessed first hand how a pilot can influence the hiring or not hiring of a pilot. I've called many of my friends that when to Comair in recent months to ask if they knew what was going on with the MEC's. Almost to a man they said no but the general mood is that mainline is not going to be hiring in the near future so they want all they can get now. O.K. fair enough but don't come crying when the worm turns. I have a feeling that the percentages of ASA guys compared to the percentages of Comair guys getting hired to Delta will be pretty heavily weighted on the ASA side of the house.

Well good luck to all,

GII/GIII FO
formerly known as DAL737FO

 

[cl-65link]

I warned ya. <sigh>

 

[Caveman]

Lumber Yak wrote:

"How would you feel if you were a Delta pilot and found out that Comair, owned by Delta, was not helping out your furloughed friends despite the fact that ASA had done so? I suppose you wouldn't care - right? Sure."

I wonder how they feel knowing that some of their mainline brethren are picking up open time while they are furloughed?

I wonder how the Comair pilots felt when the ONLY airline to deny them the jumpseat during their strike was DAL?

The snapshot version of events that you heard via third or fourth hand isn't accurate. The DAL MEC was combative, arrogant and argumentative during the meeting with the CMR MEC. He basically DEMANDED that we ask our management to grant them this favor. In return they would offer some undefined preferential hiring for CMR pilots if and when DAL ever starts to hire again. Our MEC simply said well that's nice but we didn't make the policy, our company did.

Why didn't the MEC demand that Ma Delta tell Comair to hire their guys without resigning their seniority? Because they know it isn't in DAL's best interests to do so. Why didn't the DAL MEC ask CMR management to change the policy? Because they know it isn't in Comair's best interest to do so. Why then did they demand that the Comair MEC do what the DAL MEC has thus far been impotent to change? So they could blame the CMR pilots for their own failure.

 

[NYRANGERS]

Lumber Yak wrote:

"
Why didn't the MEC demand that Ma Delta tell Comair to hire their guys without resigning their seniority? Because they know it isn't in DAL's best interests to do so. Why didn't the DAL MEC ask CMR management to change the policy? Because they know it isn't in Comair's best interest to do so. Why then did they demand that the Comair MEC do what the DAL MEC has thus far been impotent to change? So they could blame the CMR pilots for their own failure.

Same reason your bunch will not be hired. It is not in DAL's best interest to do so.

You do realize the DAL Captain in the interview is an ALPA rep??

Again, if your MEC supported hiring of furloughed guys, it does not mean it would happen. It would have been a simple gesture in good faith that would have gone a long way. ASA only has 13 Delta furloughed guys. Why do you silly guys think all 1060 furloughed guys would have come to comair?

It is not the comair pilots fault that furloughed Delta pilots can't be hired without resigning their number.
It IS the comair pilots fault that they "Don't support the hiring of furloughed Delta pilots".

It really is becoming pointless to argue this here, but 10000 Delta pilots will never forget this.

 

[Caveman]

NYRANGERS wrote:

"It IS the comair pilots fault that they "Don't support the hiring of furloughed Delta pilots"."

Nice try at the spin, but we in fact do support the preferential hiring of any furloughed ALPA pilot. If you have a problem with the seniority resignation, take it up with Delta and Comair management. It's their policy, not ours.

Your MEC told our MEC to succomb to their demands or he would tell the world that we were against hiring furloughed Delta pilots. Sorry, pal, but we will not be blackmailed or intimidated by BS spin and half truths.

Gee whiz, I guess I'll never be able to work for DAL mainline. I'll try to go on with life.........

 

[Rook]

Nice reply Cave.

First off I hope the new year is being good to you and your family and that life in CVG is going good for you.

It's too bad we can't take Rodney King's advice when he said...

OW!
GOD THAT HURTS!!!
STOP!
OUCH MY EYE!

But seriously. It's too bad that there has to be a rift between the regional and it's mainline. I for one was turned away from a Delta jumpseat during the strike. I don't hold any animosity, it's just that I'm surprised the mainline doesnt empathize with those of us struggling at the regional level. Not all of us were rich kids who could 'afford' a job flying a CRJ.

The RJ concept is around to stay. If we were all flying Turboprops, then the argument would be moot. (in my opinion)
We just want to be able to make a decent living. I'm not sure what the CMR MEC's reasoning was for turning down pref hiring at DAL but there's got to be more to the story. Comair had the 'stugots' to walk when they were being treated unfairly. It might happen again.

Rook
600' AGL.
Autopilot on.
'WHEW!'

 

[skydiverdriver]

Sorry..

 

[DAL737FO]

This is exactly how this stuff balloons up. I'm going to use Caveman as an example and I may be way off base but here goes. I notice from your profile, Caveman, that you are a retired Marine grunt. (Thank you for your service by the way) This would lead me to believe that you are older compared to some of the guys/gals your seniority level at Comair. (Join Marines at 18 + 20 years service + 3 years at Comair to date = 41) Now lets add on about 5-6 years before any possiblility of hiring at Delta mainline. So you are looking at 46-47 before possibly moving to a major seat at the Big D. So what my point, and again this is opinion, the more senior/older members of the regional jet faction are the ones speaking the loudest (most of the time) about not wanting to move on to mainline. Now if I was a younger guy/gal at Comair I might be thinking of supporting the hiring of furloughed pilots, again opinion only. I have a lot of friends at Comair that went there recently. Most are retired Army pilots. They originally went there with the intentions of building fixed wing time and moving on. Here again they are older due to spending 20+ years in the military. Almost to a man they have all decided that they will never make it mainline now and support getting whatever they can will they are at Comair. Hey it's natural, looking out for number one right? This is a subject that will never be won on this board.

Again good luck to all,

GII/GIII FO

 

[NYRANGERS]

NYRANGERS wrote:

"It IS the comair pilots fault that they "Don't support the hiring of furloughed Delta pilots"."

Nice try at the spin, but we in fact do support the preferential hiring of any furloughed ALPA pilot. If you have a problem with the seniority resignation, take it up with Delta and Comair management. It's their policy, not ours.

Your MEC told our MEC to succomb to their demands or he would tell the world that we were against hiring furloughed Delta pilots. Sorry, pal, but we will not be blackmailed or intimidated by BS spin and half truths.

Gee whiz, I guess I'll never be able to work for DAL mainline. I'll try to go on with life.........

Wasn't it only around a year ago you just hired on with comair. Now you are ready to throw away your fellow comair pilots chance to come to Delta.

Look, if you want to finish your career at comair I applaud you. Some of your friends may want the chance to move on. It is not only the Delta pilots who are pissed off at your mec's actions. ALPA itself may find fauld with your group. I hope all the ALPA pilot reps in the interviews remember the comair mec's descisions.

 

[Kingairrick]

How come no one has mentioned the side letter proposed by the Delta MEC, without the consent of the Comair MEC, that Comair could hire furloghed Delta pilots, train them, give them preferential hiring consideration, and then let them go when its over. Or, that the Comair MEC only found out about this letter by accident. Maybe this meeting didn't go well because of the already present animosity between the two MECs.

To me it looks like another case of the MECs (near retirement...what's their priority?) screwing around with the future that they will not even be a part of. The pilots that will be affected have no say in the matter. When the time comes, I hope that most reasonable pilots in the hiring comitee will recognize this fact and not hold it against an individiual candidate.

At the end of the day, most pilots are reasonable, intelligent, people.

By the way, the RJDC does not ask for the elimination of scope in its lawsuit. It asks to be included in the negotiations concerning scope, when it effects Comair pilots. This is verifyable by reading the lawsuit's full text, available on the RJDC's website.

 

[PCL_128]

By the way, the RJDC does not ask for the elimination of scope in its lawsuit. It asks to be included in the negotiations concerning scope, when it effects Comair pilots. This is verifyable by reading the lawsuit's full text, available on the RJDC's website.

The lawsuit asks for reperations in the form of billions of dollars. That will destroy ALPA which will in turn eliminate scope.

 

[Kingairrick]

It does not ask for $1.

Read the complaint (as filed with the court) on the RJDC website.
Get your facts straight.