Comair exit poll

[737 Pylt]

and sent much more money to the RJDC.

That's it fins, keep sending those checks to ford's lawyer, he's laughing all the way to the bank, and so am I!
737

 

[av8tor4239]

Hey look, I'm not sure what the answer is for you guys down in ATL. What I do know is that I have been at COMAIR for over 3 years, and y'all have been negotiating for just about the entire time I have been here. I appreciate and believe that you were planning on raising the bar, but the question is when? We can't afford to sit around and wait for you, and in the meantime watch these airplanes continue be allocated to other "portfolio" carriers, esp. the non-WO's like CHQ. It's time for us to either ride the pine or get in the game. I prefer the latter....

I do understand and respect your views, but what you see and what we see are 2 very different pictures.

I started a thread called "BOTTOM FEEDERS" about a month ago about people like you... I know you are one of them from this statement...

The jist of the thread is that people that are getting hired by regionals now days are totally ignorant to the process of aviation contract negotiations.. Gone OH.. YOu have proven yourself TOTALLY ignorant to the negotiation process.. People like you should not be allowed to vote.. You are like the people in the Walmart in West Memphis Ark. YOu should not be allowed to breed.

 

[av8tor4239]

atrdriver

And who did we have helping us during negotiations????? Not one airline. We did it on our own much like you at ASA should do if you want to be successful. If you think that CMR is going to give you the ability to gain a positive working agreement then you are mistaken. Quit riding my back, your weighing me down! Now go find your own ball to play with. You negotiate your contract and I will negotiate mine.ASA needs to step up and prove that you have the Ba!!s to fight for a good contract. The top is a lonely place. With that said, I voted no.


Waco

Waco... I would like to thank you for voting NO.. You have made a wise decision.. I must respond to your statement though...

Our two MEC's are the strongest entity in the "regional" business.. You might have signed your contract on your own, but you did it PRE 9/11 and guess what, TIMES HAVE CHANGED. We need your support to take advantage to raise the "regional" QOL and Pay Scale bar. And the funny thing is.... Drumm roll please.... You will need us when it comes time for you to renegotiate!!!

 

[~~~^~~~]

Deleted

 

[JI Gone OH]

I started a thread called "BOTTOM FEEDERS" about a month ago about people like you... I know you are one of them from this statement...

The jist of the thread is that people that are getting hired by regionals now days are totally ignorant to the process of aviation contract negotiations.. Gone OH.. YOu have proven yourself TOTALLY ignorant to the negotiation process.. People like you should not be allowed to vote. You are like the people in the Walmart in West Memphis Ark. YOu should not be allowed to breed. QUOTE]

I am not going to sit here and waste my time defending myself to the likes of you and your juvenile insults, but I will have you know that Comair is not my first airline. With flying for three (3) 121 carriers now, you can rest assured knowing that I am more than privy to the contract negotiation process. I venture to bet that I have existed in this industry a little bit longer and have seen just a little bit more than you. Don't misinterpret me and suggest that I am saying I am any "smarter," but the rules of the game have changed, and if you don't wake up and see that pretty d*mn quick the ships going to leave and you'll be left behind.

Like Fins, I certainly understand and respect your point of view; in fact I welcome it. Try and lay off the insults and the childish banter as you'll give yourself a lot more credibilty. Nice weekend.....

P.S. I am only 1 vote out of 1900. My ignorance shouldn't effect the outcome too much.

P.S.S. Who did you fly that E-145 for Bro? It wouldn't be one of those "BOTTOM FEEDERS" like me you alluded to above would it ;-)

 

[av8tor4239]

P.S.S. Who did you fly that E-145 for Bro? It wouldn't be one of those "BOTTOM FEEDERS" like me you alluded to above would it ;-)

The reference bottom feeder has to do with the type of people that are getting hired at the airlines right now... The regionals dont have to offer what they used to.. it is no longer a stepping stone like it used to be... I have had several experiences where I have been on the crew bus in the past few months and ran into newhires for our company that were very cocky and had attitudes towards there job, that they could do better than the job that they just got hired into..
Bottom Feeders was not a reference to any one particular airline, but it was a reference to a particular kind of newhire pilot.

I flew the E-145 for continental express back in 2001.. I was quickly furloughed after the terrorist attacks of 9/11. I got the priviledge to work as a ramp agent for a year before ASA was kind enough to offer me employment.. I turned down my recall to Continetal Express and Stayed with ASA..

PS.. I dont hate you, I just feel very stronly about the vote that is on your Table and have very strong opinions about pilots selling out to management for growth..

I strongly believe that your management team told you things that are completely untrue about mother delta reducing your flying and your fleet... i also feel very strongly that you have a very secure place in the connection market and this is a way for Fred and Delta main to prove to the world that they can control yours and our contracts. I also feel very strongly, weather you have yes or no vote to your LOA, you will get the growth airplanes.

 

[C425Driver]

Just a few thoughts here.

First, for those of you who think that Comair pilots are running scared and flocking to the polls to vote YES, the current exit poll shows 57% YES to 43% NO. This shows that we are clearly divided on this topic. So please don't stereotype all of us for tucking our tails and giving in to Fast Freddy.

Second, for those of you who think that the new pay matrix will sustain us as the highest paid regional pilots, you are mistaken. A couple of pilots posted the figures on the CMR APLA message boards. Here's a summary:

The pay example given to us in the LOA shows the pay for a current 5 year Captain. A 5 year Captain will earn 68.13/hr and will be frozen at that rate. When the freeze is over in June 2007, this Captain will go to the next longevity step, or 6 year pay (70.23/hr).

If you compare our 6 year pay to other 6 year pay rates for our peer airlines in 2007, we are indeed at the top of the industry pay rates.

But wait! If you don't drink the Cool Aid, you will realize that the 6 year pay rate at Comair will only come after 8 YEARS OF SERVICE! Compare the pay rate for 8 YOS at Comair to 8 YOS at our peer airlines in 2007 and we are almost at the bottom of the industry for pay rates. Don't let JC and Freddy Krueger fool you into thinking that our pay will be somthing to aspire to.

Third, I have been at comair since before the strike. There seems to be a stereotype that we all think that those of us who we there at the time are better than the rest of you. When I show up to work every day, I see a pilot group that is humble, yet proud of what we accomplished in 2001. There are a few vocal braggarts on here who like to blow their own horns, but they do not speak for the majority of us. Like my fellow Comair pilots, I am proud of what we accomplished, but I do not think for a second that I am better than anyone else. Every airline that has voted in a contract since we did in 2001 did what they thought was right. Did they do what was right for themselves? For the industry? Time will tell. Will Comair do what is right for themselves and the industry? Time will tell that too.

Whichever way this vote goes, it will be difficult on the Comair pilots and possibly the rest of the industry.

What's the number of that truck driving school?

C425Driver

 

[jetjck2]

So what is the latest poll showing---Yes or No?

 

[jarhead]

So what is the latest poll showing---Yes or No?

Read the post above yours. He just stated it is 57 to 43 percent to the yes side.

 

[JI Gone OH]

PS.. I dont hate you, I just feel very stronly about the vote that is on your Table and have very strong opinions about pilots selling out to management for growth..

I strongly believe that your management team told you things that are completely untrue about mother delta reducing your flying and your fleet... i also feel very strongly that you have a very secure place in the connection market and this is a way for Fred and Delta main to prove to the world that they can control yours and our contracts. I also feel very strongly, weather you have yes or no vote to your LOA, you will get the growth airplanes.

And again, I respect your feelings on the issue. I don't like being faced with the choice we are having to make, but I don't feel as though we are selling out. We are being forced to get our labor costs in line with our competion; it's as simple as that. Delta has shown their hand as to who gets growth: the cheapest. And as I have said in previous posts, I don't believe for a minute that we will get the airplanes if we say No. Fred can't reward us for telling him to pack sand. If I were on the outside looking in, I might feel as strongly as you did about this. At present, COMAIR has zero (0) growth airplanes on order and quite frankly that concerns me. Companies don't sit idle, they either grow or shrink. This is an opportunity for us to continue in what I would consider to be the right direction.

I appreciate your insight minus the insults. Nice weekend....

 

[av8tor4239]

Companies don't sit idle, they either grow or shrink. This is a way for us to continue in the what I would consider to be the right direction.

Please tell me why you think that you as a pilot group are responsible for that growth.. How do you figure that you taking concessions will secure growth.. Is is not your managments job to secure growth. Especially when you are wholly owned.. You are not skywest or chitaco.. You are embraced by mother delta a wholly owned company.

 

[JI Gone OH]

How do you figure that you taking concessions will secure growth..

The proposed L.O.A. (which I have right in front of me) states that we will take delivery and put into revenue service an ADDITIONAL thirty-five aircraft as follows:

1. By December 31, 2006, we will have acquired an additional 18 aircraft, including at least 8 certified at no less than 70 seats. It further states that the fleet shall consist of and will be maintained at no less than 182 aircraft by December 31, 2006.

2. By December 31, 2007, we will have acquired an additional 26 aircraft, including at least 16 certified at no less than 70 seats. It further states that the fleet shall consist of and will be maintained at no less than 190 aircraft by December 31, 2007.

3. In concludes to say that we will have acquired all 35 ADDITIONAL aircraft by March 31, 2008.

Now I have paraphrased a bit so as to not bore you with the language. Our fleet now sits idle at 164 aircraft. There is verbage that allows them to temporarily reduce the fleet size to 193 aircraft (I am assuming that is for maintenance reasons), but I gave you the bulk of it.

Seems pretty black and white to me. Hope this helps...

 

[FurloughedAgain]

Just watch out for that pesky force majeur' clause.

We had:

#1. Minimum block hours
#2. Minimum captain positions
#3. Minimum fleet size
#4. Successorship language
#5. and No-Furlough language

in the US Airways contract prior to 09/11 and they were still able to furlough the first 1149 pilots due to a force majeur trigger event.

 

[JI Gone OH]

Just watch out for that pesky force majeur' clause.

We had:

#1. Minimum block hours
#2. Minimum captain positions
#3. Minimum fleet size
#4. Successorship language
#5. and No-Furlough language

in the US Airways contract prior to 09/11 and they were still able to furlough the first 1149 pilots due to a force majeur trigger event.

There are always loop holes aren't there. How are things with you Bro? ;-)

 

[Flying Horses]

Just a few thoughts here.

Second, for those of you who think that the new pay matrix will sustain us as the highest paid regional pilots, you are mistaken. A couple of pilots posted the figures on the CMR APLA message boards. Here's a summary:

The pay example given to us in the LOA shows the pay for a current 5 year Captain. A 5 year Captain will earn 68.13/hr and will be frozen at that rate. When the freeze is over in June 2007, this Captain will go to the next longevity step, or 6 year pay (70.23/hr).

If you compare our 6 year pay to other 6 year pay rates for our peer airlines in 2007, we are indeed at the top of the industry pay rates.

But wait! If you don't drink the Cool Aid, you will realize that the 6 year pay rate at Comair will only come after 8 YEARS OF SERVICE! Compare the pay rate for 8 YOS at Comair to 8 YOS at our peer airlines in 2007 and we are almost at the bottom of the industry for pay rates. Don't let JC and Freddy Krueger fool you into thinking that our pay will be somthing to aspire to.

C425Driver

2 Curious Questions:

1) When the freeze is over in 6/07, do all pilots get immediately bumped up to the next longevity step, or do you still wait till your anniversary hire date? Let's say for example a pilot hired in December. According to your example, would that pilot still be making $68.13 till December, then, finally go to $70.23?

2) Also, what would today's 5-year captain be making in June 2007, if the freeze did NOT happen, and you continued to get both longevity Date of Service increases AND contractual yearly increases?

 

[Pez D. Spencer]

Beer? Yes, please. And keep 'em coming.

I've plopped down behind the bar on many an overnight (with more than 12 hours, of course) and had a beer (or 6) with other flight crews. I sat next to a Mesa FO who was happy to have to be flying but loathing his contract. Nice guy. And I didn't tell him he was a piece of dirt for voting on that contract. I don't care how he voted.

I sat with some XJET guys and gave them an "at-a-boy" for their new contract. They still had issues with it, as a matter of fact, the captain had voted no. But, guess what -- I didn't care about that either. I've run into other XJET folks and have had them give the Comair group a collective at-a-boy.

They voted for their own reasons, and at the end of the day, I still have a job. I've read the posts on this thread and many are rediculous. As mentioned in an earlier post or few posts (I forget), we now know who are friends are. No one. If you signed on to work for your company with your current contract or voted yes for your contract, don't complain to me about it -- again, I don't care. You made your choice. Wave our contract around, pound your chest, and accept something less, then you're the fool. America West voted on a contract that passed by something in the low 50's, lets say 53%. Well, 47% of the guys there probably weren't too happy... the pitfalls of democracy. Point is, you don't get to choose our future, unless you're one of us.

If WE, and I'm not talking just me, vote NO, I will be happy to be part of this Comair pilot group. My pay will stay first rate (not that I care what you make, I don't), my contract will stay first rate, eventually my airline might shrink, and I may be furloughed. I will not be the first furlough, but I will most likely get the axe eventually. By then, hopefully, I will have had the foresight to have found another job. But, it will have been an honor to have flown with one of the only pilot groups with a sack.

If WE, and I'm not talking just me, vote YES I will be happy to be part of this pilot group. We'll get some planes, some upgrades (and yes that affects my future), some job security/new jobs for folks on the street, and the bottom line at Delta will be helped by a puny amount. And I hope one of you has the guts to come up to me and tell me I should be ashamed to be a part of this pilot group. You can post it here all day long, because I pretty much don't have time to look at this board... but, please, please, if it does pass, please come tell me to my face that you think we're a joke. 'Cause then the beer will be on you (and I hope you have another shirt -- nah that's alcohol abuse, and a waste of 3 bucks, forget it -- I'll throw the bar snacks at you).

Whatever the case, it is our decision. Individually at first, then as a group. It is quite clear to me that I shouldn't worry about having friends (in airline terms) because it is evident we have no support. We have ASA pilots bashing us and Delta "share the pain" and "you didn't hire our furloughs" pilots calling us names too. Maybe it's Atlanta, I don't know, but thanks for the words of wisdom and support. Take care.

And if you really do care, the general buzz around flight line (not the exit poll) is pretty much NO. Or the YES people are being awfully quiet. We'll see next week I imagine. By the way (and these are honest questions - not flame attempts), if you guys at ASA are that darn unified, then why haven't you already struck? You guys were saying a year or so ago that December '04 was your plan, right? At least some progress -- how long have you guys been working on this contract?

 

[brokea$$pilot]

For Delta/comair/asa Pilots

ITS SAD THAT U GUYS HAVE TO TAKE PAYCUTS IN ORDER TO GROW BUT IN MY OPINION ITS WORTH IT. THE AIRLINE INDUSTRY IN THE U.S. IS THE WAY IT IS AND ITS NOT FUN WATCHING YOUR WH@RE COUNTERPARTS TAKE FLYING THAT SHOULD BE DONE BY DELTA. THE WAY THINGS ARE GOING IT WOULD BE WISE FOR THE PILOT GROUPS AT DELTA,COMAIR,ASA TO INTEGRATE. OTHERWISE THERE WILL BE ANOTHER USAIRWAYS PANDEMIC AND WE ALL KNOW WHAT A MESS IT IS OVER THERE-UNFORTUNATELY FOR ALL THOSE WONDERFUL PEOPLE WHO WORK THERE. THE WORD WH@RE WAS REFERENCED TO THE CHIHUHUA TYPES. COMPARE THEM WITH THE COMAIR /ASA PILOTS AND YOULL SEE WHAT IM TALKIN ABOUT. SECOND CLASS AIRLINE PILOTS-THE CHIHUHUA PILOTS. HOW CAN THEY EVEN BE PROUD OF THEMSELVES.

 

[C425Driver]

2 Curious Questions:

1) When the freeze is over in 6/07, do all pilots get immediately bumped up to the next longevity step, or do you still wait till your anniversary hire date? Let's say for example a pilot hired in December. According to your example, would that pilot still be making $68.13 till December, then, finally go to $70.23?

2) Also, what would today's 5-year captain be making in June 2007, if the freeze did NOT happen, and you continued to get both longevity Date of Service increases AND contractual yearly increases?

1. If I understand the LOA correctly, when the freeze is over we all all move to the next longevity step and we will not wait for our anniversary. So in the example that you are asking about, the pilot would go to 70.23 in June. Also, if we do not have a new contract in place by Jan 1, 2008, the company will give us all a whole 2% raise. Golly!

2. If the freeze doesn't happen, todays 5 year captain will be an 8 year captain in June 2007. The rate would be 78.01 (instead of the 70.23 that Freddy is offering). That's almost a 10% cut in what we were supposed to make.

Thanks Fred!

C425Driver

 

[~~~^~~~]

With the cut ASA is Comair -1%. Coincidence?

What makes you think there will not be another cut?

Why do you guys trust Buttrell to provide airplanes? Does Buttrell run Delta?

Doesn't anyone there realize that ASA and CHQ are at their full capacity to train pilots. Why do you Comair pilots believe that concessions are necessary for growth?

 

[jarhead]

Why do you guys trust Buttrell to provide airplanes? Does Buttrell run Delta?

I don't believe trust has anything to do with it. If the planes do not come, the original contract remains intact, does it not? Am I missing something when you imply that "trust" is what the vote is about? I thought the vote was on a legal contract with obligations on both sides to hold up.