COEX losing 69 Aircraft

[ATRCA]

I think some folks are a little off here as well. XJT had first right of refusal here. We can keep the 69 aircraft and redeploy them ourselves somewhere else. I don't think this is likely personally, but it is an option. At any rate the first a/c will not leave the property until December 06. There is plenty of time for an alternative for the company and the employees.

I have had my $hit out for a while now and will continue my attempt at exodus.

 

[The Truth]

This is exactly why I decided to get out of the regional business and back into engineering. Based on the lumps the legacy/major carriers were taking, it was a natural and logical progression for a trickle-down effect to hit the regional industry. As all of the "Comair is best", "ExpressJet is best" posts continued in the past, I had to shake my head and hope that what I thought was going to happen, wasn't going to happen. Unfortunately, it did.

It's unfortunate. It's a travesty. It's everything bad that is bad. Everyone can lay blame on the "bottom feeders" now, but quite honestly, the one's being applauded for raising the bar now are seemingly in a position to become the next bottom feeder of the future. For those that don't believe me, look back into the history of the regional industry. It's a cyclical industry. You're top dog today...the place that everyone respects and wants to work for. And tomorrow, you're quite the opposite.

The likes of CHQ and Mesa get a lot of flack on this board for what people view as undercutting the potential of the industry, yet they're just assuming a role that evolves naturally in this situation. Although it's difficult to accept, the regional business is just that...a business. When practically every legacy carrier is bankrupt and just barely keeping its head above water, do you really think their primary concern is completion rates and being #1 in overall customer satisfaction? No, of course not. They're interested in having a job next year, let alone tomorrow. And to have a job, they have to make money. You can't make money by losing money...or spending more money than you have.

Hopefully, this is just a scare tactic by CAL. I've got several good friends over at XJT, and they seem to think that this is just the natural start of negotiations. I tend to agree, but who knows. None of my friends there seemed to think that XJT would remain the exclusive carrier by the time the contract was next due. CAL isn't exactly a cash cow. Hopefully, XJT will ride out this storm, keep a majority of its flying for CAL, and just accept the fact that another regional doing some of its flying is just the way business is done.

What I DO know is that XJT is a quality operation...one of the best out there. And that speaks volumes. You all may lose some of your flying (or may not...who knows this early) but your reputation will allow you to pick up more flying as well. So, think about that. I don't think this news is as bad as what it initially indicates. And I still think you XJT pilots have a really good thing going, and it will continue to be so. Good luck to you all and enjoy doing a job that brings satisfaction to your life.

 

[millhouse21]

I wouldn't be surprised if Uncle Hulie bids on this for Whore Jet. Wouldn't that be the perfect excuse for him to but EMB 145s on their certificate?

 

[Mesabi Miner]

Seems funny. XJT and XJ were in negotiations at about the same time. XJ settled for a reasonable contract, then XJT did. Now XJ pilots are under the gun by management for concessions through an illegal bankruptcy. Look what followed! The crap is beginning at XJT. Nobody has a safe contract anymore and despite biological inpossibility, airline management will still try and squeeze blood out of a turnip.

Hang in there guys and gals, and best of luck to all the good Indy Air folks...

MM

 

[psysix]

Good lord you're dense. I was simply trying to illustrate that we are one of the most profitable airlines in the world, and as such, we have many options regarding what we do IF 25% of our fleet goes to another operator.

What's this "our fleet" crap? You don't own any planes, CAL own them. XJT like most regionals, is a virtual airline, all you do is provide lift service to a major airline. You couldn't operate without CAL umbrella of services they provide for you.

 

[psysix]

From the CAL Q&A.
-----------------------

I have family/friends who work at XJT.?What does this mean for them?

This is a question better answered by XJT management. XJT and its employees have done a good job for us over the years; however, we believe other regional jet operators can provide the same level of service at a lower cost.
We would have preferred to have reached a long-term agreement with XJT at competitive rates, but we were unable to do so.

 

[ATRCA]

What's this "our fleet" crap? You don't own any planes, CAL own them. XJT like most regionals, is a virtual airline, all you do is provide lift service to a major airline. You couldn't operate without CAL umbrella of services they provide for you.

The a/c are subleased to XJT and it does get to decide wether or not to return the aircraft of operate them in another market.

 

[TEXAN AVIATOR]

Getting drunk as I read this... Sonsabitches.....

 

[B-J-J Fighter]

I was wondering where you were on this thread Texan Aviator.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

Well I hope theres enough attrition so that I may finally get a jet job. I hope these current RJ FO's leave to another industry so that I can finally get my big break flying a jet aircraft. I dont care about pay. I want that uniform and to be able to tell EVERYONE that im an airline pilot and got hire with so few hours. That'll really impress them.

I cant wait.

 

[Rogue5]

I was wondering where you were on this thread Texan Aviator.

Is he the guy who had the profile that stated he was "another cocky COEX guy?"

Regardless, much respect to the The Big Lebowski quote, and best of luck to all you guys through all this crap...

 

[sflax]

Good luck XJT, but I would not blame Mesa, I would blame ALPA and the airline management. I know what happened over at mesa and their pilots took one for the team. They stopped Freedom, if they had not done that, it would be the norm in the industry. Plus the industry in changing, medium jets can cover a longer distance then ever imagined. The mainline guys need to fly the 700/900 and 170/190. Not the regionals. I do not agree with what is happening in the industry, but if one regional puts its foot down, all the others, even the goods will come in and take the flying.

 

[pilotkppsg]

Well I hope theres enough attrition so that I may finally get a jet job. I hope these current RJ FO's leave to another industry so that I can finally get my big break flying a jet aircraft. I dont care about pay. I want that uniform and to be able to tell EVERYONE that im an airline pilot and got hire with so few hours. That'll really impress them.

I cant wait.

Man, you need to chill out w/ this flame $hit, it's really annoying.

 

[migio]

ExpressJet=The New Eagle.

 

[FlyWithSean]

Wasn't this year supposed to be the year when the prediction was that there was going to be a massive shortage of pilots? A shortage so bad that the industry would be struggling to find pilots.
LOL

 

[migio]

Wasn't this year supposed to be the year when the prediction was that there was going to be a massive shortage of pilots? A shortage so bad that the industry would be struggling to find pilots.
LOL

With all the furloughs one would think that.

 

[COEX-FO]

THE SKY IS FALLING THE SKY IS FALLING!

WE, not CAL will decide which, if any airframes are returned. .

Wrong!

 

[Alchemy]

Expressjet is FUBAR'd after this. Run far, far way from this place if you can. Whoever said this is the next eagle is 100% correct. Let the whipsary begin....Luckily it looks like I will avoid furlough for now.....who knows what will happen in a few years. Maybe I'll go fly freight in Alaska. If I auger it in it could be the best thing that ever happend to me.....

 

[joe_pilot]

I knew one of you would come out of the Woodwork, can't say Skywest without it echoing in the mountains, here in this good old place.

As for me stopping being a penis wrinkle, isn't that what this forum is for......
I gotta pick on somebody and you guys are so easily picked on .

Dude, Come on. It is one thing to start a thread and take shots at us, but when there are (potential) jobs being lost and people's livelyhood at stake, why the need to throw the mud? Why even attempt to associate us with wanting to take ExpressJ's flying when you know it isn't true. That would be like me saying you are a white supremist beacuse of your Signature line. Don't think I can make the connection? Check out this website.

Cave Canem

 

[BoilerUP]

So what? UPS has the balance sheet to purchase EVERY airline in the United States if it wanted! What's your point?

Yep, and they've got enough on the balance sheet to pay you what you want, but they're not going to, so whats your point?

Do you really not have anything better to do in the crashpad?

 

[mckpickle]

ExpressJet=The New Eagle.

No way, at least Eagle is owned by AA.

 

[RP170]

real mature, dnkt. Since I'm a Mesa pilot based in ORD, perhaps we can schedule a time for us to meet up so you can "tell me what you think". Here's your chance...face-to-face. PM me so we can coordinate.

The last I looked, I had 16 days off this month...nothing to brag about, but it's a tad more than the 8 days off you claim we all only have (of which I've had once in a year and a half here, and that was because I didn't make the roster when I got out on line). The minimum 8-days off only applies to being on reserve, and with the constant attrition here, that reserve time is minimal to say the least.

And one other thing, do me a favor, and some research. Investigate how many ex-Mesa pilots there are at such carriers as SWA...or American...or NetJets (or any other "step-up" from a regional). Personally, I know of many. Ask them if they're happy making "shoot wages for the rest of their lives". I bet you'll be surprised by not only the quantity of ex-Mesa pilots out there, but also how a few years at Mesa allowed them the opportunity that they now have. It's unfortunate that these ex-Mesa pilots aren't here to justify their decision themselves. Could it be that life is so good for them that they actually don't hang out on this board? Naw, couldn't be.

Bash away...

Attrition at Mesa? Why is there a lot of attrition Earl? Care to explain?

 

[Erlanger]

Look who may get the flying. Does the Raymond James "analist" know something we don't?

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/051229/mesa_mover.html?.v=2

 

[logolight]

Some good points here on the possibilities. Like I said before, I figure by 12/06 about 180 resignations. If Express finds other flying then great, if not then hopefuly ALPA can work out voluntary furloughs to keep the involuntaries to a minimum. But in this case they'll be on a hiring freeze for the forseeable future.

 

[007]

Dude, Come on. It is one thing to start a thread and take shots at us, but when there are (potential) jobs being lost and people's livelyhood at stake, why the need to throw the mud? Why even attempt to associate us with wanting to take ExpressJ's flying when you know it isn't true. That would be like me saying you are a white supremist beacuse of your Signature line. Don't think I can make the connection? Check out this website.

Cave Canem

DUDE, you have WWWAAAYYY to much time on your hands. Maybe I should go work for Skywest.

 

[Propblast]

Sorry to hear about this. I know firsthand how this will affect the ExpressJet folks - we lost about 50% of our fleet this year alone. Good luck to the great folks at ExpressJet.

-PB

 

[Earl Williams]

RP170, I think you know by now that I'm not waving the Mesa flag. My response was a defensive reaction to what I viewed as a very immature, lack of substantiation post by dknt.

As I've said in a previous post, attrition at Mesa is high because this isn't exactly a great company to work for. But I'm not really sure which company is right now. Seems like you're enjoying your gig over at CHQ...in which I'm glad for you. I haven't spoken to too many CHQ pilots, but the few that I have had nothing but good things to say.

With regards to attrition, I simply don't think a lot of people really know what they're getting into here at Mesa. I admit I was a bit naive as well. Those that leave do so for a variety of reasons. I have to remind myself of my long term goals in this career on a daily basis (or even an hourly basis on a typical trip). Sometimes I feel like I'm "done with it all", but that's usually related to factors outside of Mesa (gate not being open for 45 minutes, weather causing a ground stop, mechanical delays, not being able to make a commute, etc, etc, etc)

In short, there are better places than Mesa, and I feel there are worse. I may eventually be one of those who adds to the attrition rate, yet nowadays I'm not so sure that a lateral move to any other regional would be a wise move given the current state of the industry.

 

[Photoflight]

Start stackin resignation letters effective feb 1st.

If management can cancel a contract whenever they want why cant a pilot group start forcefull negotions for a new one anytime they feel like it.

 

[migio]

No way, at least Eagle is owned by AA.

What i meant was in terms of upgrade times.Im guessing for anyone hired today and back to the middle of 2004,that it will be a 7+ year upgrade.I SERIOUSLY believe my prediction.Things are gonna be WAAAAAYYY stagnant guys.Rant on.

 

[MINIME]

Unfortunately, I'm not in the least, surprised by this move by CAL. I like to think that I and others have hinted at this in the past. For the person that I think, said that this could not happen at Eagle.....I would sure hope you know something I don't. Once the likes of Freedom showed up, the groups at places like Air Whisky and Comair became targets. None of us are imune!

Some may ask, why I bring Freedom into the mix? Because that's when I believe managements around the country saw their wet dreams really come to fruitition. It really could be done! Bring these pilot groups to their knees by whipsawing and pay them what we want to pay them not what we can afford. And through loopholes and a few unethical bodies, it was all legal as well! Something I'm sure they always wanted to do, just not quite at the level they desired. What's happening at XJT is good ole classic whipsawing folks. With the threat of giving your flying to countless others unless......cannot be called anything else other that. Same could be said for Comair and whomever else could, might be next.

I say, demand agressive negotiations with CAL to keep those airplanes. Demand as a solid group for a 50/50 loss by both, management and employees of any salary loss. I don't think the battle's over yet by a long shot. CAL has been known to use the media as a threat when negotiating. Best of luck to you guys.....