COEX losing 69 Aircraft

[007]

You can stick with your real bottom feeders first 007.

SkyWest doesn't fly ERJ's. They have enough flying already.

you have fun with mesa and hojetz first wank face

Took ya a while

 

[007]

CO will obviously choose which jets they want returned as they "own" or hold the leases on all of XJT operated aircraft. They could just start another airline under "Britt" or one of the other certificates they own!

The aircraft will still be operated on CO routes. I am very sorry for the XJT pilots who lose on this deal.........perhaps it's time to reevaluate the flow thru agreement and draw some of the pilots off the seniority list at XJT!

CO intends to hire 64 per month for several months then 48 for the foreseeable future.

The flowthrough is dead, CAL wants nothing to do with it.

All thats happening here is the Cashcow to the slaughter, our managment has not much to lose since they all have golden tickets back to CAL since that is where they came from.

 

[Tail Gunner Joe]

Sounds like Continental owns them and leases them to COEX and they intend to lease them now tho some cheap-A$$ provider.

Am I reading this correct?

correct

 

[superrav]

Its a Notice....its not final yet.

 

[superrav]

Someone made reference to CoEx having a good 50 seat rate. These jets that are going bye-bye, are they 37 seaters that CO is deciding aren't profitable? How does a major decide that only 69 jets aren't profitable while the others are?? Someone enlighten us on how this contract works.

Per the contract i believe they can take up to 25% of 274 airplanes and put them up for bid. We still have 8 or so airplanes do to arrive in 06'.

I really wish we could all stand together. Public needs to be aware about what we make. Air traffic controllers are fighting..why cant we. Only way this is going to stop is if we stand together.

 

[100LL... Again!]

This is unfortunate, but we have no one to blame but ourselves as a collective group of professionals. We left the door open to these bottom feeder carriers.

Unions are dead and it is their own doing. They lost track of their original purpose and now they are suffering for it.

There are few do-overs in real life.

I've lost all faith in the union model.

 

[imacdog]

Only way this is going to stop is if we stand together.

Dream on. There are too many pilots out there who are willing to fight for scraps for this to ever happen. We are going through the same thing at Comair, and it is not a fun place to be.

 

[joe_pilot]

I am surprised that there haven't been any Skywest guys chiming in yet with "we're gonna take it all"

007,
What happened to this?

"You guys need to be a little nicer to each other"

from this thread? I'm not feeling the love, brother.

Now we both know that you can generalize about any group, say Gamma Kappa Sig. True, it has some morons for members, but it is still a great organization. Maybe you could have said "I am surprised that there haven't been any idiots chiming in yet with 'we're gonna take it all' "

We do have some tools at SkyWest, but it is a great Pilot Group, most of whom would never think, let alone say what you did. Why such a bad opinion? Maybe you've never actually met one of us. Come to SLC, the first (3.2%) beer's on me. In the meantime:

Stop being a penis wrinkle.

And for all of my friends at ExpressJet, I hope this turns out for the best. Good luck.

-JP

 

[Mercury]

Spring 2004 would still have a job. If we lose all 69 aircraft thats about 690 pilots which would go back to spring of 2005 hires.

690 pilots works out to Spring of 2005??? Not to get off the topic here but just out of curiosity,how many pilots did XJT hire in 2005?

P.S. Best of luck to all at XJT, I know a lot of great people there!!!

 

[FlyinPiker]

This could just be opening-round negotiating - right? We don't know if this is finalized. Sounds like hard-ball negotiating to me - bring down the rates or else...

I took this from one of the numerous articles out there:


ExpressJet has up to nine months to decide whether it wants to sublease any of the 69 aircraft, on which it would pay higher rates, Continental said. ExpressJet would be barred from operating them in any Continental hub without the Houston-based carrier's permission.
There is little chance of ExpressJet finding another partner for the 69 planes, Corridore said, adding that the two companies could still reach an agreement but that it would be at sharply lower rates. "Continental is obviously digging its toes in here and saying that your rates are going to come down or else you're not going to be our partner of choice any longer," he said.

 

[LJDRVR]

THE SKY IS FALLING THE SKY IS FALLING!

WE, not CAL will decide which, if any airframes are returned. We are free to pursue other flying outside the CAL hub system. Not even Mesa or CHQ can make much if any money with an aging 37 or 45 seat jet. (For all practical purposes, the ER's are 45 seaters most of the time.)

This is just the opening salvo. CAL was able to use XJT as a money-laundering ATM during their recent concessions. (We accelerated our repayment of debt.) CAL is unofficially profitable beyond belief, due in large part to Express. (Look at their stock. Ours never went up. Why? THe street knew what whas going on, only the Flight Attendants didn't fall for it.) We may strike out on our own with those airframes, management may use this as a tool to solicit lower labor costs, (I'm voting NO) or almost 700 of our pilots will lose their jobs in a year from now. Time will tell what will happen, my guess is the other shoe has yet to drop drop. It'll be interesting to see what that might be.

In the meantime, just a reminder: Express Jet Holdings has the balance sheet to purchase UAL or DAL. Don't count us down and out yet.

 

[Superpilot92]

690 pilots works out to Spring of 2005??? Not to get off the topic here but just out of curiosity,how many pilots did XJT hire in 2005?

P.S. Best of luck to all at XJT, I know a lot of great people there!!!

XJET was planing on about 3000 pilots to staff all 274 aircraft but with only 205 aircraft that would put the people hired spring of 2005 at the bottom of the list. Thats if we lost 69 aircraft which may or may not happen. Thats just my calculations i think thats somewhat accurate but i am sure there are other factors also involved. good luck to us all

Happy New Year

 

[BoilerUP]

There is another 12 months of attrition before planes start leaving, plus it will not be an instantaneous reduction of 69 airframes, but rather a gradual drawdown. I'd have a hard time imagining many people currently on property would be at risk of furlough.

While many have already started yelling MESA, I'd keep an eye out for ol' Uncle Hulie...he could use this as a carrot for an even longer extension of TSA's already outdated contract and would use that savings to get his 10% margin. Just my $.02

Good luck, XJT guys and gals...

 

[Skyrtr]

There is no flow through

CO will obviously choose which jets they want returned as they "own" or hold the leases on all of XJT operated aircraft. They could just start another airline under "Britt" or one of the other certificates they own!

The aircraft will still be operated on CO routes. I am very sorry for the XJT pilots who lose on this deal.........perhaps it's time to reevaluate the flow thru agreement and draw some of the pilots off the seniority list at XJT!

CO intends to hire 64 per month for several months then 48 for the foreseeable future.

There is no flow through agreement with Continental. That went away after the IPO of ExpressJet. There are no longer any Continental flow backs at Xjet, or Xjet captains remaining on the previous flow through agreement.

As a pilot for Xjet, I am not even a little surprised that this happened. I have been predicting it since my hire. So what if we do a good job? So did all the other great U.S. workers who saw their jobs given to slave wage workers in China over the last decade. People keep shopping at Walmart, and they'll still click on the cheapest airline ticket too. I see that the unions have no teeth, and have just become another layer of management. The unions are more scared of strikes than management, and nobody respects them. There has been an erosion of public respect for unions over the last 20 or so years. They get no respect from the public and most feel they have lost their purpose (I don't think they have, I just think they've lost their way....).

 

[Plug]

I have heard rumblings around the ASA camp fire that they want to bid for this flying. Skywest wants to add a 3rd codeshare partner. This is why they want a 0 net gain contract so that we can competitively bid, what a bunch of $hit!

 

[Hypoxik]

Good luck to my buddies their at XJ! I hope it works out, you are a great bunch of guys/gals

 

[tranceport]

That is why we must have an effective union.

I'm not picking on you but here's a quote out of today's Chicago Tribune:

"Striking mechanics at Northwest Airlines appear to have lost their fight against the airline. The airline has replaced all of the 4,400 strikers, and none of the carrier's other unions honored the picket line."

strong or not, airline mgmt. have broken the code...and....no one sticks up for the common, blue collar, skilled worker like pilots.

It's not just in the airline industry either....it's not popular to stand up for the rights of the working person in this country when the ultimate goal is to bring lower prices to a consumer driven society like our own.

As long as we have resources, be it labor or imports, readily available to come to market, then we will have downward pressure on our wages. The current administration's agenda to allow foreign ownership of airlines beyond 49% will be the final nail in the coffin of 'our pilot unions' and industry.

Until the supply/demand curve shifts (many years away), we will continue to see real wages in this country decline. In Illinois alone, we are #2 in the nation for declining wages, it has been declining for 6 years straight, and we lost 200,000 manufacturing jobs in the past few years. This is an example to show you that 'it's not just airlines'....it's everywhere.

Good luck to us all and perhaps we now need the foresight to look into other job and career opportunities! Hell, you can buy a VLJ with a partner or in a timeshare and fly when you want for less than the cost of a single family home....can't wait til thousands of those planes take even more passengers away!!

(off my soapbox now)

 

[logolight]

Figure an average 15 pilots per month attrition rate. 15 pilots x 12 months = 180 pilots resigning in the next year. The question now is how many crews are there per aircraft that figure will give a better indication of the number of furloughs.

 

[whymeworry?]

This is a sh!tty business.

XJT mgmt pushed it's pilot's HARD to deliver a quality and reliable product. This is the payback to those employees? Just goes to show you the only looking for #1 is yourself. To all the guys who risked their careers (licenses) cutting corners and pushing the limit (read: bending the rules to help the airline make money.), here is your reward. Enjoy it... as you have once again learned how replaceable a pilot is.

Word is that CHQ has offered CAL mgmt a deal-of-a-lifetime: they will take the risk on any empty seats on feed flights for CAL. Now how can an airline make money that way?

While XJT is a quality place to work and hang your hat, they are BY NO MEANS high in costs. They have their own in-house mx and trng. That means, due to economies of scale, they are able to keep their costs lower than anyone else... except of course those willing to do mainline feed business at a loss. Pitty the shareholders of the crappy regional airline who wins this contract.

Regarding blame on ALPA... that blame rests at the foot of Duane Worthless. He has lead our union into a path of utter destruction. Forget waiting until May when he steps down... he needs to be replaced NOW!!!

 

[generaltso]

This is a sh!tty business.

Word is that CHQ has offered CAL mgmt a deal-of-a-lifetime: they will take the risk on any empty seats on feed flights for CAL. Now how can an airline make money that way?

I would not be surpised if one of the regionals tried this (maybe not CHQ, but any other regional). And if one goes over to this type of repayment, others will be forced to follow. I think the days of guaranteed profits for regionals will eventually end.