CitationShares Questions

[Captainzero1]

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The only advantage CS has over Netjets, particularly a new hire is the choice of basing and that's it. If I were a new hire and could live in one of NJs bases, there would not be a choice. The fractionals will have harder times recruiting the type of individual they are accustomed to unless they all improve their benefits and quality of life. The pay at NJ and CS is respectable for what we do, it's the Q of life that matters to me.

Sparse, have you gone over to the dark side?

 

[Captainzero1]

Cs

The only advantage CS has over Netjets, particularly a new hire is the choice of basing and that's it. If I were a new hire and could live in one of NJs bases, there would not be a choice. The fractionals will have harder times recruiting the type of individual they are accustomed to unless they all improve their benefits and quality of life. The pay at NJ and CS is respectable for what we do, it's the Q of life that matters to me.

Sparse, have you gone over to the dark side?

 

[Diesel]

I guess it has eveything to do with where you came from. I have never had a week of paid vacation in my life and have never had 401k and affordable benefits and have never had more than maybe 8-10 days off a month. So to me the fractional industry as a whole seems pretty nice. I have worked for my share of crappy 121 and 135 companies but have never made more than 40k. 1 week of vacation isnt that bad when you get 26 other weeks off a year. Yeah I know Netjets gets two but they also have to be based in 5 very big expensive cities. (don't just assume that is going to change in the next contract) so that cost of having to move or pay to commute via driving or flying offsets the small pay difference. Most of the fractionals are strong and growing and really don't directly compete since most owners are new and not transfers from other services. I will go to whichever frac calls because they are all a step above the regionals and shady 135 operators but the basing of CS actually appeals to me more because commuting sucks especially when it is on your own dime. I do have a thing against kneepads though but the hats sound pimp!!!!!!

exhibit A of a regional pilot

 

[Capt. JD]

Turbine?

Do they ever hire pilots without turbine time? I really don't want to go to a regional....

 

[Iam3rd]

What lies in your response is exactly what is wrong with this profession. Pilots sell themselves too short. The real earning power of the major airline jobs has come down because some sold themselves short and were willing to do the job for a lot less. Less in real dollars and QOL. Your attitude on vacation is exactly why it will never change. You are willing to do ir for less because less is better than what you have. We need to place real value on what we do. Our week off after a tour is just that, our week off. COmpare the time you spend on the job each week to that of the office types and you will see a staggering figure. The office types get to go home every night. We do not. I don't know for a fact, but I bet they get two weeks vacation. All and all, a fractional pilot spends close to twice the amount of time at work (hours away from home) as the average 40 hour per week worker. One week of vacation os pathetic.

spoken like a true union rep.

 

[Diesel]

spoken like a true union rep.

Spooken like a guy that loves to be at the companies whim.

Hows that sitting around the FBO's doing? What about the forced overtime with no pay?
Try not to eat all the cookies at the fbo.

 

[jonjuan]

Spooken like a guy that loves to be at the companies whim.

Hows that sitting around the FBO's doing? What about the forced overtime with no pay?
Try not to eat all the cookies at the fbo.

Ummmmm, sounds like your company bruddas sittin FBOOOOO below......

"If you don't like FBO rot, stay away from the 400xp. That thing is the king of the FBO rot."

Are the 400XP dudes not at the company whim?

"NetJets actually has a rest waiver from the FAA for the 800XP. That means that the 800XP crews can be scheduled with a minimum of 8.5 hours of rest. I really don't know how those guys and gals put up with that."

Wait a sec, doesn't the teemsters have a say?

"Just flew my second tour in the G-200. I love how different the flying is day to day. I had my first "sit at the FBO and rot" day. I flew one three hour leg and sat at the FBO for 8 hours. I have to say, that sucked hard."

"I've only been here a year and a half but love it... well, compared to the regionals I certainly do. But it depends what you mean by QOL- different strokes for different folks."

Some people hate flying and love sitting hot spare as much as possible. Some hate long legs. Some hate short legs because it means too many turns. Yet all of these things vary not just by fleet but also time of the year, gateway or domicile location, and even luck of the draw on a tour. Plus, is it just me or are the schedulers are playing around lately with wierd schedules sometimes to fill in their super-duper computer program that is supposed to predict fatigue calls?

Coming from the regionals, it took me a bit of getting used to the short overnights (10-11 hours are routine), forcing one to ask for a 14 hour via a fatigue call if they get too carried away with that. Granted, no reduced rest like the airlines, but sitting around a long time on hot spare to fly at the end, or sitting around for hours after you fly a few hard legs, can get old. However, usually variety and luck of the draw intervenes for the better too, and you get a hotel day with no or a broken airplane, or a one leg day with a late checkin, or something, to make up for that here and there."

 

[Sparse]

Sparse, have you gone over to the dark side?

No, just stating fact. I love what I do and love where I work, I just wish they loved me the same and gave me some more vacation.

 

[Iam3rd]

Like a buddy once told me "sometimes you beat the system, sometimes the system beats you, but in the end it all evens out".

Plus......you have to admit.....it all still beats working for a living!!!!

 

[SCT]

"Plus......you have to admit.....it all still beats working for a living" ...................or working for CF!

 

[Iam3rd]

especially working for CF......you seem to know me all to well.....how was England?

 

[flagshipper]

Being gone is the game in flying. Very few flying jobs have you home every night and most of those suck. We as pilots aren't paid to fly. We are paid for our time. You should know Sparse coming from a military background. Let me see how much per hour you are making on a 13 month tour could probably come out to the 7 to 8 dollar an hour range maybe. I do not sell myself short and I left the regional world based merely on the principle that I was worth more than 20k a year. The vacation policy will change especially if less and less people keep showing up for class. Oh well we are all on the same side here and as previously stated flying for a living is still a lot better than office job. I used to work 50 hours a week 5 days a week with one week of vacation a year. I had to schedule my doctor's appt during my lunch break or take one of my vacation days. So the flexibilty of flying is one of the perks but it comes at a price.

What lies in your response is exactly what is wrong with this profession. Pilots sell themselves too short. The real earning power of the major airline jobs has come down because some sold themselves short and were willing to do the job for a lot less. Less in real dollars and QOL. Your attitude on vacation is exactly why it will never change. You are willing to do ir for less because less is better than what you have. We need to place real value on what we do. Our week off after a tour is just that, our week off. COmpare the time you spend on the job each week to that of the office types and you will see a staggering figure. The office types get to go home every night. We do not. I don't know for a fact, but I bet they get two weeks vacation. All and all, a fractional pilot spends close to twice the amount of time at work (hours away from home) as the average 40 hour per week worker. One week of vacation os pathetic.

 

[Stinkbug]

Spooken like a guy that loves to be at the companies whim.

Hows that sitting around the FBO's doing? What about the forced overtime with no pay?
Try not to eat all the cookies at the fbo.

You've been misinformed...no one does overtime at CS without being paid for it.

 

[Diesel]

Sorry I ment sitting around fbo's for hours and hours on end with no plane or plan.

Oh yeah what about getting in after midnight? Do you get paid for that?

 

[Stinkbug]

Sorry I ment sitting around fbo's for hours and hours on end with no plane or plan.

Oh yeah what about getting in after midnight? Do you get paid for that?

That's a provision you have in your contract...and good for you for getting it. The rules for overtime are clearly spelled out to any newhire who signs on at CS. If we get in after 3 am, it qualifies as OT. If it's OT, we get paid for it...I just wanted to clear that up, not trying to stir the pot.

 

[Ultra Grump]

If we get in after 3 am, it qualifies as OT. If it's OT, we get paid for it...

WHAT??!! Yeah, that sounds great.

 

[clueless]

couldn't agree with you more. this place really has changed. i heard we just had a class of 19 start and only 12 showed up. people are leaving left and right. mgt is drinking their own koolaid and can't see that the pilots have had enough.

CS is a good place to get hired, upgrade reasonably promptly, get your PIC time, then get on with your life.

20 years at CS? Shoot me now.

 

[NJA bound]

CS is a good place to get hired, upgrade reasonably promptly, get your PIC time, then get on with your life.

20 years at CS? Shoot me now.

20 years in a citation shoot me now!!!!!!! At least at NetJets we have a few different models that you can STAND UP and walk in.

 

[flagshipper]

weird mental picture of a NJA pilot standing up and crying as they walk up and down the aisle fully erect (???) with no hunching saying yes yes yes!!!!!!! with the pax wondering what the heck you are doing

20 years in a citation shoot me now!!!!!!! At least at NetJets we have a few different models that you can STAND UP and walk in.

 

[Stinkbug]

WHAT??!! Yeah, that sounds great.

It is what it is. I was just clarifying. The OT policy has been in place since the beginning, as far as I know. It's not like it just changed...every CS pilot knows the policy when they start here.