CitationShares Questions

[On Your Six]

Yes we are on duty during standby.

WRT the INDOC Class.

I heard they hired 25, 17 scheduled, 10 showed even with reduced qualifications.

Are these no-shows going to other fractionals like Netjets instead?

 

[saabservant]

I had an interview there recently; they let you know the same day. Good experience, a good tour and explanation of the operation. Turned down an offer, as I cannot do their schedule. Oops! should have done more research.
Sounded like a better life than that at the regional. All is relative I guess...

Was surprised to see only one week vacation-that is low for being away a lot. And the pay is low, compared to Netjets. They say they want to be smaller, but provide first-class service...will probably have to start paying first class wages to get the personnel, though. Not surprised to hear of people leaving there, or many other places. The regionals are hiring, with commercial licenses, and some offering bonuses or base guarantees. I think companies are going to have to re-think business plans that count on cheap pilots...

The new XLS, and the CJ3 and Sovereign would have been fun to fly...

 

[Stinkbug]

You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but your post was a bit of a head-scratcher for me. Cheap pilots? Pay low compared to Netjets? I'm aware of the advantages that the Netjets guys have with regard to work rules and vacation, which they worked hard to negotiate into their contracts...but I'm not sure I'm following you otherwise; the pay between the two is pretty similar when you compare similar fleet types.

And either is far and away a better move financially than any regional. That's just MY opinion.

 

[Sparse]

You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but your post was a bit of a head-scratcher for me. Cheap pilots? Pay low compared to Netjets? I'm aware of the advantages that the Netjets guys have with regard to work rules and vacation, which they worked hard to negotiate into their contracts...but I'm not sure I'm following you otherwise; the pay between the two is pretty similar when you compare similar fleet types.

And either is far and away a better move financially than any regional. That's just MY opinion.

The only advantage CS has over Netjets, particularly a new hire is the choice of basing and that's it. If I were a new hire and could live in one of NJs bases, there would not be a choice. The fractionals will have harder times recruiting the type of individual they are accustomed to unless they all improve their benefits and quality of life. The pay at NJ and CS is respectable for what we do, it's the Q of life that matters to me.

 

[Stinkbug]

The only advantage CS has over Netjets, particularly a new hire is the choice of basing and that's it. If I were a new hire and could live in one of NJs bases, there would not be a choice. The fractionals will have harder times recruiting the type of individual they are accustomed to unless they all improve their benefits and quality of life. The pay at NJ and CS is respectable for what we do, it's the Q of life that matters to me.

QOL is important to me too, and I don't think it's bad at all. Again though, I guess mileage varies from one person to the next. I wasn't trying to assert that I thought CS pilots were in better shape than the Netjets guys, I just thought the previous poster's comments about cheap pilots and low pay at CS was odd, along with his comparison of CS to the regionals. I just don't think there's any comparison

 

[Sparse]

along with his comparison of CS to the regionals. I just don't think there's any comparison

I do agree on that one.

 

[saabservant]

I believe I said that CJ would have been a much better deal than that at a regional, so long as you can work the schedule.
You are right, it is a no brainer...the only people who stay at regionals into their 50's are those whose spouses make good coin and want to stay, or those who are frankly too lazy to get out and compete for better jobs....
Just hope it is not me...

 

[flagshipper]

I guess it has eveything to do with where you came from. I have never had a week of paid vacation in my life and have never had 401k and affordable benefits and have never had more than maybe 8-10 days off a month. So to me the fractional industry as a whole seems pretty nice. I have worked for my share of crappy 121 and 135 companies but have never made more than 40k. 1 week of vacation isnt that bad when you get 26 other weeks off a year. Yeah I know Netjets gets two but they also have to be based in 5 very big expensive cities. (don't just assume that is going to change in the next contract) so that cost of having to move or pay to commute via driving or flying offsets the small pay difference. Most of the fractionals are strong and growing and really don't directly compete since most owners are new and not transfers from other services. I will go to whichever frac calls because they are all a step above the regionals and shady 135 operators but the basing of CS actually appeals to me more because commuting sucks especially when it is on your own dime. I do have a thing against kneepads though but the hats sound pimp!!!!!!

What if you plan to move closer to a base if you get the job? Iis that adequate to begin employment. Also is the 1 week of vacation going to be changing?

THX

 

[Sparse]

I guess it has eveything to do with where you came from. I have never had a week of paid vacation in my life and have never had 401k and affordable benefits and have never had more than maybe 8-10 days off a month. So to me the fractional industry as a whole seems pretty nice. I have worked for my share of crappy 121 and 135 companies but have never made more than 40k. 1 week of vacation isnt that bad when you get 26 other weeks off a year. Yeah I know Netjets gets two but they also have to be based in 5 very big expensive cities. (don't just assume that is going to change in the next contract) so that cost of having to move or pay to commute via driving or flying offsets the small pay difference. Most of the fractionals are strong and growing and really don't directly compete since most owners are new and not transfers from other services. I will go to whichever frac calls because they are all a step above the regionals and shady 135 operators but the basing of CS actually appeals to me more because commuting sucks especially when it is on your own dime. I do have a thing against kneepads though but the hats sound pimp!!!!!!

What lies in your response is exactly what is wrong with this profession. Pilots sell themselves too short. The real earning power of the major airline jobs has come down because some sold themselves short and were willing to do the job for a lot less. Less in real dollars and QOL. Your attitude on vacation is exactly why it will never change. You are willing to do ir for less because less is better than what you have. We need to place real value on what we do. Our week off after a tour is just that, our week off. COmpare the time you spend on the job each week to that of the office types and you will see a staggering figure. The office types get to go home every night. We do not. I don't know for a fact, but I bet they get two weeks vacation. All and all, a fractional pilot spends close to twice the amount of time at work (hours away from home) as the average 40 hour per week worker. One week of vacation os pathetic.

 

[Captainzero1]

The only advantage CS has over Netjets, particularly a new hire is the choice of basing and that's it. If I were a new hire and could live in one of NJs bases, there would not be a choice. The fractionals will have harder times recruiting the type of individual they are accustomed to unless they all improve their benefits and quality of life. The pay at NJ and CS is respectable for what we do, it's the Q of life that matters to me.

Sparse, have you gone over to the dark side?