CHQ new Delta jets?

[surplus1]

Give it a rest. Stick to your guns and take no concessions and watch your flying disappear.

think it over

OK, I'm thinking. What would you suggest we do?

Should we perhaps offter to fly for less than Mesa so that we can grow?

Should we tell the Company that we will undercut the pay of CHQ by 20%, if they just give us back our MCO base?

Should we tell our brother at ASA that they should stop negotiating beacuse we intend to keep our flying and try to get theirs, and we are going to do it for less than they do now?

Maybe we should tell Delta that we will fly 737s and MD88's for 50% of the Delta pilots' rate if they'll just give us those planes?

What should we do to stop our flying from disappearing? I'm sure we'd like to hear your ideas.

 

[FDJ2]

YOU said we are willing to fly them for less.

You do, you know it, it's a fact. Your inability to come to grips with that reality is irrelevant. The only reason mainline pilots don't fly RJs at DAL is the ability of management to outsource the flying to cheaper labor. That's you, at least that use to be you. Now there is even cheaper labor to be had, and there is your problem. After years of growth due to your willingness to do it for less, you now need to compete against a new crop of young aviators who are willing to do it for even less than you. Since you have zero scope over a single hour, you'll have to either give up some concessions, or watch your carrier get ever smaller. Perhaps you don't care about the displacements and furloughs that will inevitably occur. Perhaps you are senior enough to weather the storm, but many CMR pilots will suffer due to your lack of scope and your lack of any meaningful change of control or successorship language prior to your acquisition. Denying this reality will not serve you well in the long run. But like I've said before, it is truly ironic that the pilot group that is the most vocal in its attempt to circumvent the negotiated scope clauses of others, will be the first to suffer from their a lack of any meaningful scope whatsoever. Classic.

 

[FDJ2]

What should we do to stop our flying from disappearing? I'm sure we'd like to hear your ideas.

The first step in any "recovery" is to admit that you have a problem. The second step is to be big enough to seek help from those who can truly give it.

What the CMR pilots lack is scope, supporting an effort to abolish what scope there is is counter productive. It's like an alcoholic who tries to quit by drinking more. It aint going to work.

What the CMR pilots need, is what the DAL pilots have, scope over all DL code flying. The only way to get it is to ask the DAL pilots for help with your problem. That help may come with a price tag, but the alternative is much worse.

 

[ATR-DRIVR]

so if it is asked, what would the help be? what would be the 'price'?
it seems to me that if all DL flying WAS done by DAL/ASA/CMR, ALL of your furloughs would be back and more airframes would be had by all 3.

 

[Skull-One]

As far as the other kids on this thread. We worked hard to raise the bar, and pilot groups like CHQ and MESA and SKYW. have done nothing but race the other direction since then.

Boy what a stupid comment. CHQ improved its contract in every area and you call that a race to the bottom! Where did you go to elementary school, man? Sheesh.

 

[TWAER]

Does someone hear a horse? Oh crap, we have beaten it to death.

 

[stillaboo]

It has got to a point now that we are having to step up one more time, and most likely make sacrifices to hold on to what we have.

Uh, if you make sacrafices, you can't "hold on to what [you] have", b/c you just gave up some of it.

As far as the other kids on this thread. We worked hard to raise the bar, and pilot groups like CHQ and MESA and SKYW. have done nothing but race the other direction since then. . .

If we followed your leads, we would put our tales between our legs and take concessions so WE can continue to get "new shiny jets".

2 of those companies you named did not take concessions.

 

[FDJ2]

so if it is asked, what would the help be? what would be the 'price'?
it seems to me that if all DL flying WAS done by DAL/ASA/CMR, ALL of your furloughs would be back and more airframes would be had by all 3.

Hey, if all the flying were done by DAL pilots there would be no need for ASA/CMR et al. But that's just not the way it is, so we have to play the cards we have, not what we wish we had. One answer is certain, supporting an action to abrogate the only scope on the property is a recipe for failure.

 

[ATR-DRIVR]

fdj2
'the second step is to seek help from those who can 'truly' give it.'...okay.
next it was 'hey if all the flying was done by DAL there would be no need for ASA/CMR.' trying to figure that out...
As i stated before, if ALL the DL flying was done by DAL/ASA/CMR, NOT by anyone else would it not be of much more benefit to us 3?

 

[Russ]

Fellow aviator
Did you pay for your job?

 

[Wacopilot]

RJ

FDJ2,

The only reason mainline pilots don't fly RJs at DAL is the ability of management to outsource the flying to cheaper labor.

Hey man, the main reason that CMR has the RJ is COMAIR developed the RJ. Yea, haha....fun stuff. Yea amazing isn't it, the Comair people developed (w/bombardier) the CL65. If CMR hadn't thought up the concept, we wouldn't be having this conversation. Delta pilots didn't understand the effect of the rj as demonstrated by their scope now. So get your facts strait. CMR has the rj because CMR built the RJ. That is a fact. And we are cheaper, and better than everyone else.. bla bla bla. Oh and what was the last qtr profit report?.?. 34mil+...yea, that is a reason also.


Waco

 

[Saluki Dawg]

Just because you guys at CHQ and SKW didn't take concessions as a part of your new contracts, does not mean that you did anything to stop the race to the bottom. Unless you got at least Comair + 1% MINIMUM, then you didn't do your part to help this industry as a whole. That is the point that my fellow aviators at Comair and ASA are saying. This is what XJT will do on our next contract, and we expect ASA to get even more than us on their next contract. That is the whole idea of negotiating a new contract, to bring up not just your own airline's compensation and work rules, but the entire industry as a whole. Kudos to the Comair and ASA pilots for actually getting it!

 

[surplus1]

What the CMR pilots need, is what the DAL pilots have, scope over all DL code flying. The only way to get it is to ask the DAL pilots for help with your problem. That help may come with a price tag, but the alternative is much worse.

Since you say that Delta pilots have scope over ALL DL CODE FLYING, and what we need is scope over our flying, what will happen when we ask you for "help with our problem"? Does that mean you will give up some of your scope so that we can get scope over the same flying that you claim is yours?

That's sounds a lot like the "preferential hiring" your MEC Chairman offered, i.e., impossible. Your solution appears to be somewhat of an oxymoron, or am I missing something?

What alternative is much worse? What is the price tag and what would we be buying for that price?

Sorry if I'm slow but I miss the logic in your remarks.

 

[surplus1]

2 of those companies you named did not take concessions.

And which 2 would that be? For my money, 1 did not take concessions and that 1 is Chautauqua.

 

[Russ]

Surplus
The waters really get muddied when earlier sins are accounted for, like buying a job at Comair. No aimed at you, simply an observation.