Buffett Bites Back at NetJets Pilot Complaints

[gunfyter]

Prices and wages CHANGE over time.

They are not fixed. The Price of pilots is going up. Way up!

 

[imacdog]

No sir, that is reality.

Again, the minute you accept substandard wages you are the problem. By your own statement, you accepted what you determined to be substandard (or, more charitably, less than what you believe you are worth).

Arguing that I/we will negotiate rates up belies the fact that YOU have already set the bar lower when you started at the lower rate.

It is not about what MAY happen but what HAS happened.

Good luck,
Bob

You seem to be under the mistaken impression that a wage set nearly a decade ago has any relevance on what an acceptable wage is today.

 

[msculley6905]

Sorry to everyone else, but respectfully, WE ARE the industry. We are bigger than all our competitors COMBINED. Whatever we say the industry norms are is what they are, so I don't give a hoot about the NMB says.

I'm confused...is the industry the fractionals, or all aviation companies who fly people for payment? This statement makes it sound like just the frax, so why are there compensation comparisions to the airlines?

 

[gunfyter]

The market for pilots is the same as the market for jet fuel. All flying.

A tsunami is heading this way.

Right now there are people in aviation colleges trying to finish up their ratings but cannot due to a shortage flight instructors who have left for regionals.

Air Force Warns: We Could Run Out of Pilots | Foreign Policy

Pilot eligibility for $225K retention bonus expanded .
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$225K bonus offered to guys that are making about $100K right now... and only about half are accepting it. This is what NJ will have to do if they dilly dally too much longer on this contract negotiation

 

[gunfyter]

Air Force considers larger retention bonuses for...

(wait for it) .... drone pilots

The writing is on the wall.

 

[AV8OR]

No sir, that is reality.

Again, the minute you accept substandard wages you are the problem. By your own statement, you accepted what you determined to be substandard (or, more charitably, less than what you believe you are worth).

Arguing that I/we will negotiate rates up belies the fact that YOU have already set the bar lower when you started at the lower rate.

It is not about what MAY happen but what HAS happened.

Good luck,
Bob

Dude... Just cause you wanna act like a wage you pay is static doesn't make it so. I've seen wages go up and down over the years. The last 8 years companies were able to get pilots for less, now they cannot. When a college football coach is initially hired and produces and his demand goes up, usually he renegotiated his pay. You seem to be hell bent on the idea that whatever wage you initially negotiate for remains static in perpetuity. Wages go up and down based on demand and what is negotiated. I don't know why that's hard to grasp but I'm done explaining it. Carry on.

 

[BobbyBiplane]

You are missing the point. This is not about dynamics, it is about the value you currently place on your service. You, and only you, set that value by your behavior.

Bob

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

Sounds like " Work with me now, and I will reward you later." Well that day is soon approaching.

 

[fischman]

I'm confused...is the industry the fractionals, or all aviation companies who fly people for payment? This statement makes it sound like just the frax, so why are there compensation comparisions to the airlines?

It's a matter of perspective. According to WB and JH, the industry is the fractionals. According to me, it's not.

 

[gunfyter]

It's a matter of perspective. According to WB and JH, the industry is the fractionals. According to me, it's not.

Whats the market for IT workers?

Whats the market for Executives?

Is it only the fractional aviation business?

 

[T-1GUY]

Boom!

 

[imacdog]

You are missing the point. This is not about dynamics, it is about the value you currently place on your service. You, and only you, set that value by your behavior.

Bob

I think someone needs to explain to you how contracts work. Not that you'd get it.

 

[realityman]

Everyone needs to relax.

First off, there will be no strike. And if there is, it won't last long. I don't care how much lift is out there to cover our flying, the fact is, our customers don't want it. Do you know what the standard refrain is these days from clients I fly? It's, "I just want what I paid for.". They want THEIR aircraft to show up and fly them. They are tired of getting hosed by Hansell's new program of screwing them over. Far from "acclimating" our clients to being on selloffs, it's pissing them off. If they wanted to be on a chartered flight, they'd simply do it themselves and save a bunch of money. And while they may not care about what we make, or whether our kids can afford college, or how our healthcare is, they DO prefer actual Netjets pilots. The reasons vary from person to person, but it's been born out over and over that overall they really do like us and prefer us.

So all this handwringing over how much extra lift management may be preparing is wrong. I'd personally give a strike/lockout 3 weeks before the EMT will really be feeling the heat. Certainly not enough time to train 1500-2000 pilots to take over.

But most importantly, we will get what we can with available leverage. In other words, we can and WILL have a contract on par with the best legacy carriers if we bring appropriate leverage. I'm not talking about a strike. We have the power RIGHT NOW. And while it's been a bit of a slow process, it appears more and more people are realizing it.

How do any of you doubters and naysayers think Delta, or FedEx or UPS, or American or any of the others got what they have? Do you think they did it by waiting for the beneficence of management to kick in? Did they get it by looking at all the worse jobs out there and saying, "Well, at least we've got it better than them?". Do you think they got it by saying, "Most people out there pay a portion of their healthcare so we should probably expect the same?".

Hell no!! They got it by saying, "This is what we are worth! This is what we DEMAND! And we're going to TAKE IT regardless of what anyone else thinks!!!". Discussing these issues on FI is nothing more than surgery on a cadaver. I don't care what Pilotyip or Msculley or anyone else here thinks about what we have or what we want. I am a pilot for Netjets and I know what we can get, and I have the resolve to get it! If another 2700 pilots joined me, we'd be done with this in a month or two.

And best of all, the bar will be set higher (again) instead of joining the race to the bottom. And whether they will ever acknowledge it or not, all the naysayers here will benefit from our success. Many did from our last contract, and if we're successful they will again.

-RM

 

[Mooneymite]

Everyone needs to relax.

-RM

I disagree. We do not need to relax. Not at all.

Everyone needs to be prepared.

If everyone IS prepared for a strike/lockout, then the probability that one will occur will decrease.

If everyone takes your advice, doesn't prepare his financial/personal affairs, they will be surprised and we can expect a higher percentage of picket crossers simply because we won't allow their families to go hungry.

A good contract is not a slam-dunk, as you would have us believe.

Each of us should be prepared for the worst....and demand the best.

 

[Mooneymite]

Ooops too late to edit.

...simply because we won't allow their families to go hungry.

Should read, "....simply because they won't allow their families to go hungry."