Buffett Bites Back at NetJets Pilot Complaints

[Mooneymite]

Somethign I agree with, sim time is aslmost impposible to get rigth now without the impact of replacing 100's of pilots.

If 3000 NetJets pilots are locked out, there will be plenty of empty sims since we won't be doing any recurrent/transition training.

We already have new-hire training in place, so they'll be able to expand it.

 

[BlueNose]

I suspect the NMB will get a little political pressure from the money-boys and NetJets will be released quickly and we will be locked out sooner than anyone is even guessing.

We are definitely better off preparing for a lockout rather than discounting it out of hand.

If Hansell gets 20% of the NetJets pilots to accept his terms (lots of money to be made by those who cross the picket line!), he can limp along with sell-offs and contract pilots (even EJM pilots on their off days) for long enough to hire and train our replacements. Generally NetJets' customers are not pro-union and will be quite patient if they think it will get rid of those "awful unions".

The key to a successful strike/lockout situation is the savings of the individual NetJets pilots (that's you and me!). If you haven't got savings that will last you and your family for 6 months, you need to. We'll need 100% of the pilots on our side of the picket line.

If the lockout doesn't happen, you've built up a nice nest-egg and gotten your financial house in order. Start saving!

I agree that you can probably expect release and a lockout if this continues on to that point. Hopefully it doesn't come to that, but you have to prepare just in case. My guess is Hansell's looking at the Northwest AMFA strike in '05 as the model. That was an independent union that struck in the face of concession demands. The mechanics thought they were too highly trained and valuable to the operation to be replaced. NWA management proved them wrong - they prepared, increased outsourcing while they hired/trained replacements, and ended up breaking the strike. The mechs took a bigger pay cut when they settled than the proposal they struck over. The cleaners & custodians got outsourced, most didn't get their jobs back at all. Effectively killed the union.

Hope your leadership is looking at this as a case study and preparing, I'd bet Hansell and his team are. Selling off lift while hiring and training replacements is all to viable a strategy, and from what you all say it doesn't look like he understands or cares that this would destroy the brand that you and RS built over the years. Maybe you can make the owners (customers) understand that before it progresses too far. There's a reason they chose frax over charter in the first place.

 

[T-1GUY]

No way could he limp along. That's replacing 2000+ pilots overnight. They can't even handle normal training amounts without a backlog. Netjets would come to a screeching halt.

 

[Hawkered]

There are not enough pilots to replace the ones we are losing now. This is a different time. Hansell is screwed!!

 

[Mooneymite]

There are not enough pilots to replace the ones we are losing now. This is a different time. Hansell is screwed!!

I do not agree.

Look back at the "early days". NetJets didn't hire ATP's with six type ratings. If you had the necessary licenses and passed the drug test, you were hired.

Hansell has no appreciation for what pilots do. He would have no compunction about hiring from the bottom of the barrel.

Throw a rock into a bush....fifteen "qualified" pilots will jump out ready to take your job....and Hansell will give it to them when he locks us out.

The fact that Hansell has only one qualification (busting unions) and is still running the place is reason enough to plan for the lockout.

Do the math. Hansell does not need 2000 pilots right away...especially since the work rules will be gone.

If we prepare and I'm wrong, no harm. However, if I'm right and we're not prepared, we ARE screwed.

Dump your debt and start saving....and get those job applications sent in today.

 

[BlueNose]

I'm just an outsider looking in, but what happens with your fight will affect the rest of the industry for years to come. So best of luck to you all. I would caution some of you to remember the old saying, "the graveyards are full of indispensable men."

Remember that the FAA requires only a 1500 hr ATP with a type for a "qualified" PIC, and a 300 hour Commercial with no type makes for a perfectly "qualified" right seater.

 

[Diesel]

Somethign I agree with, sim time is aslmost impposible to get rigth now without the impact of replacing 100's of pilots.

It's not sim time. The training center now has to be approved for our training course.

So we can no longer use sim's other than CMH and SAV. They can't even use them now to fill the backlog of pilot hiring.

Way to go training department.

 

[Diesel]

I'm just an outsider looking in, but what happens with your fight will affect the rest of the industry for years to come. So best of luck to you all. I would caution some of you to remember the old saying, "the graveyards are full of indispensable men." Out.

I'm not indispensable but I'm not going to live on my knees either.

 

[BlueNose]

I'm not indispensable but I'm not going to live on my knees either.

Never said or meant to insinuate that you should. Who here wants to see any other pilot's wages cut? Like I already said, best of luck to you. But how you plan and how you shape your message between now and the eventuality of a lockout makes all the difference. I just disagree with those who seem to think they can't be replaced. I tried to point out that they might not have all the leverage they think they will when the time comes, and so should plan accordingly.

 

[wacoflyr]

Wow. What great soap opera. I was an Avantair guy(oops) and I just thought I would check back here to see what's going on. I see emotions are rather hot right now.

Hope you guys win. Oh, about that brand new ATP? There is no way this side of Hell that the insurance companies will let a junior birdman fly a plane full of rich idiots around. If you don't have at LEAST four thousand hours, no well insured highly thought of outfit will let you see the left seat. As it should be.

Now, back to my popcorn!!!

 

[PCL_128]

I disagree with your assessment.

The reason that we are under the NRLA is the government does not want a strike/labor striff to interfere with national interests/commerce. A nationwide railroad, or airline strike could have major impact on the economy/national defence, etc.

NetJets is a tiny operation. If it is permanently grounded it would have virtually no effect on the national economy. Warren Buffet could ride on Southwest, or a part 135 jet.

I suspect the NMB will get a little political pressure from the money-boys and NetJets will be released quickly and we will be locked out sooner than anyone is even guessing.

We are definitely better off preparing for a lockout rather than discounting it out of hand.

If Hansell gets 20% of the NetJets pilots to accept his terms (lots of money to be made by those who cross the picket line!), he can limp along with sell-offs and contract pilots (even EJM pilots on their off days) for long enough to hire and train our replacements. Generally NetJets' customers are not pro-union and will be quite patient if they think it will get rid of those "awful unions".

The key to a successful strike/lockout situation is the savings of the individual NetJets pilots (that's you and me!). If you haven't got savings that will last you and your family for 6 months, you need to. We'll need 100% of the pilots on our side of the picket line.

If the lockout doesn't happen, you've built up a nice nest-egg and gotten your financial house in order. Start saving!

First, there's no such thing as an "NRLA." There's the NLRA, and the RLA. Two different Acts with different rules. You fall under the RLA.

And as someone who spent many years dealing with the NMB, I'll just say that your analysis leaves much to be desired, and you're likely to be quite disappointed. I wish you the best, though.

 

[FamilyGuy]

No, but there will be enough sell-off lift available to cover the trips. EJM, TMC and other 3rd parties, and don't forget Options/Flex fly charter through KR's broker company. And you can't count on the Options/Flex pilots spiking the trips - they won't even know these are NJ owners they're flying. It'll just say Mr & Mrs Smith or XYZ Corp on the manifest. NJ's not the operator in the case of a sell-off, they just act as a charter broker, to the crew never need know where it came from. And you can be sure the pax will be briefed not to reveal it, either, if they don't want a departure time break.

So in the event of a strike, a Frax pilot union has even less leverage than an airline union. At least with an airline, lost trips = 100% lost revenue. With a Frax, monthly management fees are still coming in, the company just loses the hourly trip charges. That'll still be an expensive proposition for NJ, but if they're determined to break a strike and Hansell has WB convinced that it's a cost saver long-term, they'll probably be willing to burn cash for a while. As already stated, could get real ugly, real fast.

There is not enough lift out there to cover all of the NetJets demand. NetJets struggles right now to get enough lift to cover their sell offs, let alone the entire fleet demand. And the cost would go through the roof if they tried.

As for the monthly management fees, it didn't take long for the Avantair owners to refuse to pay their monthly management fees when Avantair stopped delivering service. I don't think the NJ owners will be willing to pay for service they are not receiving.

 

[BlueNose]

There is not enough lift out there to cover all of the NetJets demand. NetJets struggles right now to get enough lift to cover their sell offs, let alone the entire fleet demand. And the cost would go through the roof if they tried.

As for the monthly management fees, it didn't take long for the Avantair owners to refuse to pay their monthly management fees when Avantair stopped delivering service. I don't think the NJ owners will be willing to pay for service they are not receiving.

There are a lot of operators out there that NJ would never consider using given their current standards. That would change in a labor strife situation. When do you think a lockout would start - Thanksgiving weekend, or maybe after the spring break season as the summer lull begins? What's the percentage lift required April-May vs Nov-Dec? And the cost structure for charter is a lot different when covering a departure time break with a charter than, say, contracting with a company to provide a guaranteed 100 hrs a week for the next 6 weeks. Not to mention contracting charter with their current frax competitors - something that would never happen today. Yes, it's still a money drain for the company, but at that point it's a contest to see who can hold out the longest (see Mooneymite's posts).

Avantair was shut down by the FAA, clearly didn't meet their contract requirements, and were pretty much criminal in their conduct. If NJ is substantially meeting their contracts and covering 60-80% of their trips during a lockout, that's a completely different situation. I'd love to see whether the force majeure provision of the owner contracts includes in-house labor strife.

But why am I having this discussion, this is FI. Burn that mother down! STFD! They can't touch you, we've got your back!

 

[T-1GUY]

Never said or meant to insinuate that you should. Who here wants to see any other pilot's wages cut? Like I already said, best of luck to you. But how you plan and how you shape your message between now and the eventuality of a lockout makes all the difference. I just disagree with those who seem to think they can't be replaced. I tried to point out that they might not have all the leverage they think they will when the time comes, and so should plan accordingly.

Dude, Where have you been? This $hit has been going on for years now. I think the pilots of Netjets are well prepared by this point.

 

[BlueNose]

There is no way this side of Hell that the insurance companies will let a junior birdman fly a plane full of rich idiots around. If you don't have at LEAST four thousand hours, no well insured highly thought of outfit will let you see the left seat. As it should be.

Now, back to my popcorn!!!

No way could NetJets (BRK subsidiary that they are) find someone who might be willing to provide pilot insurance during a lockout when Uncle Warren's trying to break the union. No way.