Buffett Bites Back at NetJets Pilot Complaints

[msculley6905]

Originally Posted by fischman View Post
Sorry to everyone else, but respectfully, WE ARE the industry. We are bigger than all our competitors COMBINED. Whatever we say the industry norms are is what they are, so I don't give a hoot about the NMB says

I'm confused...is the industry the fractionals, or all aviation companies who fly people for payment? This statement makes it sound like just the frax, so why are there compensation comparisions to the airlines?

For refrence to the above post...

 

[gunfyter]

What do you think?

For Pilot compensation purposes.

We are Airline Transport Pilots... what is our Industry?

It is the sum of all carriers that transport people for payment.
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It is the company that stated we are paid better than our competitors. The company's competitors for Customers is the Frax industry.

But the company's competitors for PILOTS is ALL companies employing ATPs.


NJ is in competition with the Airlines when it comes to pilot labor

 

[NJAowner]

I agree with GF that the market is "ATP pilots".

 

[msculley6905]

What do you think?

For Pilot compensation purposes.

We are Airline Transport Pilots... what is our Industry?

It is the sum of all carriers that transport people for payment.
----------------------------------------


It is the company that stated we are paid better than our competitors. The company's competitors for Customers is the Frax industry.

But the company's competitors for PILOTS is ALL companies employing ATPs.


NJ is in competition with the Airlines when it comes to pilot labor

I agree with what you say, but wouldnt ATPs be more of a market, not an industry?

 

[gunfyter]

I agree with what you say, but wouldnt ATPs be more of a market, not an industry?

I don't know. I thought the purpose of the question was to analyze what kind of pay scale the pilots should be shooting for...

I think NJ will be losing a lot of our FO's very soon. To replace them ... well all military guys are being hired by airlines. No airlines are furloughing and no regional airline pilots will make a move to NJ. Thats where NJ got pilots in the past. Military, Airline furloughs and retirees, and Regionals.

These sources are not really available to NJA this time.

 

[Mooneymite]

I talked to an FO the other day who has his apps out to the airlines. He was telling me that he had plenty of hours and type ratings, but his lack of recent turbine PIC was hurting him. He's been SIC for almost 9 years.

If this is the case, NetJets might not be seeing a mass exodus from the co-pilot ranks. OTH, the PIC's have so much time invested, they don't want to start at the bottom.

 

[imacdog]

First off, there will be no strike. And if there is, it won't last long. I don't care how much lift is out there to cover our flying, the fact is, our customers don't want it. Do you know what the standard refrain is these days from clients I fly? It's, "I just want what I paid for.". They want THEIR aircraft to show up and fly them. They are tired of getting hosed by Hansell's new program of screwing them over. Far from "acclimating" our clients to being on selloffs, it's pissing them off. If they wanted to be on a chartered flight, they'd simply do it themselves and save a bunch of money. And while they may not care about what we make, or whether our kids can afford college, or how our healthcare is, they DO prefer actual Netjets pilots. The reasons vary from person to person, but it's been born out over and over that overall they really do like us and prefer us.

Realityman, that is all correct .. but it is not complete. The last line may read something like:

However, most owners have an anti-union predisposition and recall being negatively impacted, directly or indirectly, in the past by union activities. This may cause a majority (but not all) owners to relate to what the EMT is going through with regard to the union and may be willing to endure some problems "for the greater good" (as defined by NetJets).

Hold on a tick. Most owners know it is the mismanagement of this company, not the pilots, that has been screwing them of late. The pilots are the only group holding this place together.

 

[gunfyter]

I talked to an FO the other day who has his apps out to the airlines. He was telling me that he had plenty of hours and type ratings, but his lack of recent turbine PIC was hurting him. He's been SIC for almost 9 years.

If this is the case, NetJets might not be seeing a mass exodus from the co-pilot ranks. OTH, the PIC's have so much time invested, they don't want to start at the bottom.

I think airlines will relax the PIC time requirement. 2 Falcon sics just left for United. I am not sure they had much pic time.

Also PICs are also looking at airlines... but also Corporate gigs. One told me about a Global gig at LAX $290K work 5 days a month

 

[gunfyter]

The pilots are the only group holding this place together.

I wouldn't say that. A lot of people are holding it together... just not ... well you know who.

 

[FamilyGuy]

I wouldn't say that. A lot of people are holding it together... just not ... well you know who.

Well said