Buffett Bites Back at NetJets Pilot Complaints

[imacdog]

I do not care what extra taxes the company has to pay. I will be compensated what my skills and experience are worth.

 

[FamilyGuy]

So we should follow all the other lemmings??? The job I had prior to Netjets had us pay a portion of the insurance bill. Funny, every year that bill went up about 25%, and yet I couldn't even get a COLA raise from the crying poor company. I prefer the status quo on insurance. I would rather see parked airplanes than give on this issue. I would also expect a huge raise, more vacation time, and limits on duty days. Your line about auto unions and bankruptcy is nothing but a crock of sh$t. I don't put bolts on a tire all day long, day after day. I fly airplanes. It is a highly technical skill that takes decades and huge amounts of cash to get to the level of competency that Netjets and it's clients demand.

Great attitude. You should lead with that and put it on the picket signs at the next event. I'm sure it will strike just the right chord.

Yes, you have a skill set, and a more advanced one than some other people, but it is still just a skill set, and you shouldn't be denigrating other people's contribution to the finished product. Much like you wouldn't want me flying the plane, we probably wouldn't want you fixing the planes, or doing the scheduling or the accounting. Everyone contributes their own unique skill set and the finished product is better with everyone focusing on their specialty.

That said, companies focus their resources on solving the biggest, most intransigent and expensive problems. Automation is coming for many professions and I'm amazed at how far drones and self driving cars have come in the last ten years. They aren't ready for prime time yet, but I'm willing to bet they will in my lifetime.

 

[FamilyGuy]

I do not care what extra taxes the company has to pay. I will be compensated what my skills and experience are worth.

You should care what extra taxes the company has to pay, just like you've been concerned when the company wasted money in the past. Every dollar that the company spends on something else is one less dollar in profits and one less dollar that can be distributed to the different stakeholders.

And restructuring the health plan to avoid extra taxes from the government doesn't mean those dollars are lost to you and the other employees. Just negotiate and have them reallocated to another form of benefit.

Do you think the bankers stop cutting deals because the government raised the capital gains tax rate? No - they simply find another way to restructure the deal and get their money. You should follow the example and roll with it rather than trying to fight the tide.

 

[jmreii]

Sounds like a fredex thread just get the employee groups fighting and then divide and conquer. Now march to Rome darn it!

 

[imacdog]

No really, I have no intention to give concession to a company that is so profitable. WB endorsed Obama, he can pay the Obamacare taxes personally for all I care.

 

[pilotyip]

It is a highly technical skill that takes decades and huge amounts of cash to get to the level of competency that Netjets and it's clients demand.

You spent huges amounts of money? T-37,T-38, C-130. Me thinks, like me, you made a fair amount of money while learning to fly.

 

[SCT]

Yip, I was wondering about that statement, too. It takes "decades" to have enough hours to fly for NJ? Come on.....

 

[pilotyip]

Yip, I was wondering about that statement, too. It takes "decades" to have enough hours to fly for NJ? Come on.....

Yea I know guys who came to USA Jet with 500 hours and a COMM/ME/INS. They flew aged out airplanes for 1/2 of a decade (5 years) made decent money, got a TJ type rating and an ATP at no cost to them then got hired at NJ

 

[T-1GUY]

You spent huges amounts of money? T-37,T-38, C-130. Me thinks, like me, you made a fair amount of money while learning to fly.

The airplanes on my profile are generic for a reason. I hold dozens of other types. I don't feel the need to put down everything I have flown over the past thirty years.

The price I gave was blood, two wars, and over a decade going wherever Uncle Sam wanted me at his whim to defend this country 24/7 365 days a week.

I stand by the assertion that it takes decades to acquire the skill set. I have probably given over three hundred checkrides in multi-engine jet airplanes. Thousands of hours instructing in jets and simulators. I'm still learning and will never know it all. Like they say, it's a license to learn.

Any basic ATP with 1500 hours can fly point A to B. It's when the ******************** hits the fan you get what you pay for. Hopefully the experience in the left seat will hold it together, unfortunately I see a brain drain leaving Netjets.

In no way am I trying to disparage other jobs or professions. I had plenty of school friends working at the local GM factory for $40 an hour to put that bolt on a new car. Like I said, day in, day out. I can also tell you any trained monkey could do the work. You are comparing apples to oranges.

 

[CA1900]

Perhaps the reporter and their readers do not feel that is an important question to ask, since the vast, vast majority of working people pay a share of their healthcare.

As do the Netjets pilots. Just because it's not a line item on our pay stub doesn't mean we aren't paying for it. We negotiated full medical in lieu of a substantially higher salary number.

 

[CA1900]

Under Obamacare, the NetJets healthcare plan is classified as a cadillac plan...

That is absolutely incorrect, according to the company rep who came into a recent recurrent "training" class. She explained that, in the future, it may fall in that category. But today, it is definitely not a "Cadillac plan."

 

[pilotyip]

The price I gave was blood, two wars, and over a decade going wherever Uncle Sam wanted me at his whim to defend this country 24/7 365 days a week.

Any basic ATP with 1500 hours can fly point A to B. It's when the ******************** hits the fan you get what you pay for.

Thank you for your service, I only did one war, if you don't count the big Cold One and standing 1 hour alert on a dozen different islands around the world.

BTW: But it does not take decades to become a NJ pilot see above, the experience in the on-demand business is well beyond basic ATP

"Yea I know guys who came to USA Jet with 500 hours and a COMM/ME/INS. They flew aged out airplanes for 1/2 of a decade (5 years) made decent money, got a TJ type rating and an ATP at no cost to them then got hired at NJ"

 

[PCL_128]

Anyone who thinks the NMB is going to be sympathetic with a labor group demanding to pay nothing towards their health insurance premiums is kidding himself.

 

[Diesel]

While I currently support the unionized employees in their negotiations with NetJets, it's arrogant and condescending statements like this that make it hard to do so.

You would be well served to put the attitude away and develop some humility. You are exhibiting the same attitude and demeanor to your fellow employees that Jordan is exhibiting towards the employees. You need allies in this fight, not more enemies.
　

This is one area of the negotiations where you are seriously misguided.

Almost everyone in the US now pays for a portion of their health care expenses. Under Obamacare, the NetJets healthcare plan is classified as a cadillac plan and will be subject to additional taxes because it is so generous.

You are advocating that NetJets pay these additional taxes to the government so you can continue to get your gold plated health plan?

I don't know about you, but I personally hate paying more taxes than I have to.

With that in mind, if I were in your shoes, I'd be advocating for a position where the union modifies its health plan to avoid the additional taxes under obamacare and then redirecting the dollars saved on the health care plan to other non taxable benefits for the members. It would be neutral to NetJets and beneficial to the members.

Sticking your head in the sand and saying I will never pay for healthcare reminds me of the auto unions who refused to recognize economic realities until their company filed for bankruptcy.

You're not in my shoes. You never will be in my shoes. So that makes that pretty simple. You're wrong on the cadilac tax plan but you're listening to what the company is telling you.

Your argument holds no water. Because everyone else is paying for it doesn't mean it's right or the best course of action. It means they let the camel's nose under the tent earlier than everyone else.

You think if we save the company money on healthcare we're going to see that in our checks? You're kidding yourself.

In the end though what you feel about the pilots isn't going to change the way we negotiate, what we get paid, or the work rules we work under.

You keep saying we need allies but you're telling us we should take less because you have to. Hmmmm

 

[Diesel]

Great attitude. You should lead with that and put it on the picket signs at the next event. I'm sure it will strike just the right chord.

Yes, you have a skill set, and a more advanced one than some other people, but it is still just a skill set, and you shouldn't be denigrating other people's contribution to the finished product. Much like you wouldn't want me flying the plane, we probably wouldn't want you fixing the planes, or doing the scheduling or the accounting. Everyone contributes their own unique skill set and the finished product is better with everyone focusing on their specialty.

That said, companies focus their resources on solving the biggest, most intransigent and expensive problems. Automation is coming for many professions and I'm amazed at how far drones and self driving cars have come in the last ten years. They aren't ready for prime time yet, but I'm willing to bet they will in my lifetime.

I had a long post then I realized in the end, you don't vote on our contract so what's the point.

 

[Diesel]

Thank you for your service, I only did one war, if you don't count the big Cold One and standing 1 hour alert on a dozen different islands around the world.

BTW: But it does not take decades to become a NJ pilot see above, the experience in the on-demand business is well beyond basic ATP

"Yea I know guys who came to USA Jet with 500 hours and a COMM/ME/INS. They flew aged out airplanes for 1/2 of a decade (5 years) made decent money, got a TJ type rating and an ATP at no cost to them then got hired at NJ"

Don't feed the troll.

He's bummed he keeps having to go to the CFI pool to find pilots, or hope that some corp/fractional/ariline goes bust and someone is knocking on his door.

He's not just a bottom feeder, he is the bottom.

 

[T-1GUY]

Thank you for your service, I only did one war, if you don't count the big Cold One and standing 1 hour alert on a dozen different islands around the world.

BTW: But it does not take decades to become a NJ pilot see above, the experience in the on-demand business is well beyond basic ATP

"Yea I know guys who came to USA Jet with 500 hours and a COMM/ME/INS. They flew aged out airplanes for 1/2 of a decade (5 years) made decent money, got a TJ type rating and an ATP at no cost to them then got hired at NJ"

I appreciate your service as well.

The largest segment of Captains at Netjets are in their mid to late forties. I dare say that they have about two decades worth of flying experience under their belt. Due to the nature of the job, and the environment that they operate in, they have become highly competent experienced operators by this point in their career. Can you get hired with less experience, sure. I would say this is the exception to the rule. Those low time new hires will be mentored and gain experience. There is also a large population of FO's who were furloughed or retired with several decades of experience.

The majors are in full hire mode. Netjets is losing a lot of highly experienced operators. If my family was in the back of one of these airplanes, I would prefer and expect the gray hair guys up front, not the kids fresh out of school.

I expect to be paid for my experience. Good luck to the Netjet pilots. They deserve a large raise and better working conditions.

 

[ghostrider64]

FG...time to research what the company is telling you. The reality is we won't now or ever trigger additional taxes to the company's although they have been feeding you that for two years now, and it's the pilots fault.

Secondly, if you don't think we already subsidize the company's healthcare plane, then you should pay me the over $10,000 I've paid out of pocket the past 5 years. You do know the company is "self insured" correct? So in essence I've paid the company and for my "insurance" that $10k.

Third, my fight isn't in large part about money, mine is about the QOL that has diminished since the advent of computerized scheduling, computerized booking of hotels, and computerized triggering of intimidating pilot "firing squads"!!!!

Lastly we hear that pilots are now shadowing floor people in CMH. I'd love for you to shadow us sometime. My guess,mis you couldn't take it very long before you started crying uncle!

Pisses me off when people call BS on pilots from a cozy desk in a temperature controlled environment, eating the meal of their choosing, at a time of their choosing, while I'm up to my ass in snow, in Thunder Bay with ramp temps at -40 C, at 3am having gone to bed at 6pm, all while trying to find my sixth PB and J for the week. And in case you forgotten, I do that daily over 180 days a year....you're welcome for me generating enough profits for you to have a great job and life.

 

[Semore Butts]

FG, I'm with Ghostrider, T-1 and the rest.

The truth of the matter is we are trying to save this company we help build. We are trying to improve not only our way of life, but, yours as well.

The corporate culture we are under now is horrible. If we don't change it I'm afraid we are all gonna be out on the streets.

I know you are on board, the written word on these boards often gets confused.

Take care, Semore

 

[FLYLOW22]

Netjets stole the PR show yesterday, or more appropriately NJASAP did. All the "buzz" was about the picketers.

Last count was over 400 showed up, including a few Flops guys. Thank you for doing so.

Buffett had to do more damage control after his 50th gala than any other year on record. That's embarrassing. If Warren champions anything more than $70 billion dollars it's the brand.

Well, the brand took a direct hit and it's only the beginning.

I mean, how do you keep pilots from walking into a shareholder event when the ARE shareholders?

He'd better get with the pilots and learn to work with them...

Or Jordy, Warren and Munger can fly those new shiny jets Hansell seems to fancy.

Airplanes do not make money.

Pilots can cost you even more if treated poorly... Or they can make you more than a man can ever count.

Even Warren.