Brian Wilson Endorses The ASA Coalition!

[atlcrjdriver]

I do not think they will proffer us at this time, but I believe they'll send us back to the table with a git 'er dun mandate.

The gap can be narrowed without sitting at the table. All the MEC has to do is drop some of their more outlandish demands, and notify the mediator that they're ready to talk. I think the MEC is there, and waiting for the NMB decision so as to avoid negotiating against themselves.

And yes, I think we should "stay the course" (I can say that now that Bush has dropped it). It's too late in the game to fire the whole army, including the generals, train new ones, then resume the war with a bunch of FNGs!

That would be a very foolish move.

You bring up some interesting points. You say that you don't believe that a proffer will come anytime soon and that all the MEC has to do is drop some of their outlandish demands.

During the last sessions w/ the mediator both sides past proposals to see how close/far they were. Why didn't the MEC drop these some of these outlandish demands then? We were at the table w/ the mediator like they/we wanted to bring this "end game" to a close. Don't get me wrong, the company was no saint during this time either but the MEC didn't budge much at all.

 

[FightingIrish]

You bring up some interesting points. You say that you don't believe that a proffer will come anytime soon and that all the MEC has to do is drop some of their outlandish demands.

During the last sessions w/ the mediator both sides past proposals to see how close/far they were. Why didn't the MEC drop these some of these outlandish demands then? We were at the table w/ the mediator like they/we wanted to bring this "end game" to a close. Don't get me wrong, the company was no saint during this time either but the MEC didn't budge much at all.

At this point, NEITHER side should have outlandish proposals on the table. If ALPA still has outlandish demands, then they are partially to blame for this not being done 4+ years later.

 

[atlcrjdriver]

You already did get to vote. The MAJORITY voted 92.7% to strike. Sorry your team lost.

I actually voted yes during the vote only to give this team the leverage to put an end to this 4+ year disaster.

To rephrase my question, IF a proffer was issued wouldn't you want to see it and have a say the outcome or would you leave ALL in the hands of the MEC?

 

[FightingIrish]

You already did get to vote. The MAJORITY voted 92.7% to strike. Sorry your team lost.

I voted YES, but that doesn't mean I am happy about the way things are being handled. It was very important for us to come together and give the MEC the power to negotiate with a strong strike vote. We needed that for leverage to reach a fair deal. Many of us who voted YES however are starting to question why we still have some of the outlandish demands on the table. Don't assume that all 92.7% are going to vote to continue with the status quo.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I actually voted yes during the vote only to give this team the leverage to put an end to this 4+ year disaster.

To rephrase my question, IF a proffer was issued wouldn't you want to see it and have a say the outcome or would you leave ALL in the hands of the MEC?

Do you even understand what a proffer is?

I could be mistaken, but you make it sound like like a proffer is some sort of take it or leave deal.

It's not. It is a an OFFER, by the NMB to both sides to submit to final binding arbitration.

Do you understand the process???

 

[atlcrjdriver]

PM, I am not sure of how to ask this question any clearer for you so I am not even going to try. Simply reread the post and answer yes I would like to see it or no I give full faith in the MEC.

I believe we can agree that the chances of the NMB even offering a proffer is slim at best.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

PM, I am not sure of how to ask this question any clearer for you so I am not even going to try. Simply reread the post and answer yes I would like to see it or no I give full faith in the MEC.

I believe we can agree that the chances of the NMB even offering a proffer is slim at best.

I read it. I read it again. It still makes no sense. The question is would I like to see the proffer and vote on it.

The answer: NO.

I don't need to vote. I don't wan't my contract arbitrated by the NMB.

I have full faith in my MEC.

My Question, why would you want to vote on a proffer. Do you know what a proffer is. It sounds like you have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[John Pennekamp]

I actually voted yes during the vote only to give this team the leverage to put an end to this 4+ year disaster.

To rephrase my question, IF a proffer was issued wouldn't you want to see it and have a say the outcome or would you leave ALL in the hands of the MEC?

You clearly have no understanding of how the process works.

First, to answer your question, I HAVE FULL CONFIDENCE IN MY MEC. If I did not, I would be the first person leading a drive to recall them. Trust me on this, I've done it before!

Second, YOU DO NOT "VOTE" ON A PROFFER.

A proffer is an offer of binding arbitration. No worker in his/her right mind would submit to this in our current pro-management political climate, unless you want an industry standard contract with a long duration.

So, obviously, our MEC would say no. Why would you have them say differently? Do you WANT us to go to arbitration?

 

[atlcrjdriver]

My point is this, yes I understand clearly that this is an offer from the NMB that if either side denies this proffer then the clock starts for the 30 day cooling off period w/ super mediated talks. How do you know that this proffer/offer will be as horrible/pro mgmnt? What harm would it cause for the rank and file to see it read it and tell the reps accept it/refuse it. Just as the company could very well refuse it.

As stated earlier, the chances of a proffer coming to light is moot. So to our negotiations experts PM and JP what now? Do we continue wait in the hopes that LP will change his mind about the gap in proposals and call us back or do we adjust our strategy and start communicating w/ mgmnt again.

 

[John Pennekamp]

My point is this, yes I understand clearly that this is an offer from the NMB that if either side denies this proffer then the clock starts for the 30 day cooling off period w/ super mediated talks. How do you know that this proffer/offer will be as horrible/pro mgmnt? What harm would it cause for the rank and file to see it read it and tell the reps accept it/refuse it. Just as the company could very well refuse it.

As stated earlier, the chances of a proffer coming to light is moot. So to our negotiations experts PM and JP what now? Do we continue wait in the hopes that LP will change his mind about the gap in proposals and call us back or do we adjust our strategy and start communicating w/ mgmnt again.

What do you mean "see it and read it"? There's nothing to see and read! It's an offer from the board to enter into binding arbitration. You either say yes or no! Yes from both sides means arbitration (management will likely say yes, if given the chance). The union will say no, launching the 30 day cooling off period. Why is this confusing to you?

And by the way, it's not up to LP, it's up to the Board.

Let me ask you again:
Do you believe binding arbitration is in the best interests of our pilot group?

 

[atlcrjdriver]

My Question, why would you want to vote on a proffer.

You may be correct that this proffer would horrible, pro mgmnt, and cause us to take hugh concessions. It also may not be a bad deal w/ advances for the rank and file. Until I read it I will never know....

 

[John Pennekamp]

You may be correct that this proffer would horrible, pro mgmnt, and cause us to take hugh concessions. It also may not be a bad deal w/ advances for the rank and file. Until I read it I will never know....

You don't get it. The word "proffer" is synomous with "offer". It's not a decision on the merits of our negotiations, except to declare them at an impasse.

 

[FightingIrish]

My point is this, yes I understand clearly that this is an offer from the NMB that if either side denies this proffer then the clock starts for the 30 day cooling off period w/ super mediated talks. How do you know that this proffer/offer will be as horrible/pro mgmnt? What harm would it cause for the rank and file to see it read it and tell the reps accept it/refuse it. Just as the company could very well refuse it.

As stated earlier, the chances of a proffer coming to light is moot. So to our negotiations experts PM and JP what now? Do we continue wait in the hopes that LP will change his mind about the gap in proposals and call us back or do we adjust our strategy and start communicating w/ mgmnt again.

The proffer of arbitration isn't an actual "offer" or contract. It is simply a choice given to both ALPA and management to allow an arbitrator to rule on the remaining open issues. If the profer is granted, which everyone agrees it won't, then the two sides have to accept the profer. If either side doesn't accept the profer than a 30 day cooling off period begins. There isn't anything in the profer to actually vote on, in other words it isn't a TA.

That being said, I agree with you that we should alter our game plan in order to get this done.

 

[Richard Gozinya]

What are your interests? What are my interests? What are the interests of the pilot group?

I can tell you what my primary interest is. That is stopping the transfer of airplanes to Skywest and job protection. Many pilots I talk to say the same thing.

To continue on with what I said. Once again, who isn't interested in job security and stopping the transfer of assets to Skywest! If you aren't, then what the hell do you stand for. NOTHING! In a world where the DOW is above 12000, unemployment is below 4.5%, SKYW is showing record profits, Delta is about to emerge from BK, gas is down to levels of 3 years ago, I will ask you the same question. Other than the obvious, what do you stand for? What do you want? My guess is to be able to sit around the GO working on "Scenerio's" at 100 hours guarantee every month. By being a messenger of the sky falling era, you are part of the problem, and by no means, part of the solution. We have gone without a pay raise for at least 4 years ( we both know that will turn into 5 in the wink of an eye), and they(you) want a 5 year contact that will take 5 years to amend. I my book, the simple math comes out to more than a few moons, extended out to dam near a generation without ANY raises. Explain that to your children and wife, if you have either to answer to or provide for, how you didn't feel standing up for what is rightfully due you during good times. I stand for all these.

Once again, I say this is about having conviction, a spine and the 8all's to finish the tough fight that is occuring NOW, not in 5 years.

Dick

 

[AsaLossPaywAlpa]

:smash:

EVERYONE, SHUT UP !!!