Bill Gates New Jet?

[Spooky 1]

orgins of part 125

I've never heard of any "corporate" operator operating under 125.....can't say I understand the reg much since our old fleet of turboprops are operated under 125 as freighters by their new owner; why not 121?

I'm sure (correct me GV if I'm wrong here) the reason for the high ZFW limits on Gulfstreams are in part to allow for more uses for the airframe. As corporate birds, you can basically outfit the interior to any configuration you want and still carry lots of payload. Outside of corporate use, you see Gulfstream's in lots of other rolls where the high ZFW is an asset. We used to operate a GIII with a cargo door installed (GIII demonstrator) that would allow the airplane to be utilizied as a combi, freighter or special ops airplane. I think it was posted earlier about the Embraer and GEX begining unable to meet their special missions roll because of the weight of the equipment being installed, then Gulfstream finally getting the nod for the job.

I think that Part 125 first came into being when the automakers started using aircraft to support their production lines and it evolved into what we see today, a very unregulated, and to a certain extent unaccountable type of certificate. Would expect that to change shortly.

Interesting that you mention the Glll with the freight door. Gulfstream sold a demonstrator with the cargo door, hard points, etc. to Polaris Aircraft Leasing in SFO and then leased it back for a year or so to take to all the big airshows. When the lease was up, Polaris was stuck with selling it and at the time I was working for AMI in SFO. We tried every trick in the book to move that airplane but we had no takers except perhaps one close deal with Southern Air Transport. What ever they had planned was real hush hush and the funding from Congress just was not there. I thought the aircraft went to Norway, which already had several similar Gulfstreams in service, but perhaps this is the same aircraft we were trying to sell at that time. Don't remember the serial no. but I think it was an AC aircraft.

 

[smellthejeta]

The B757 in BUR bleongs to the Ukipyia Corp. Never sure of the spelling so forgive me on the name. It is a B757-200-2J5. The Venetian recently bought the B767-300. It came out of the Middle East somewhere. As for security I know nothing about Bill Gates policies or procedures, BUT, please remember not all security is plainly visible to the casual observer. I do not believe you could put any Lear, Falcon or Gulfstream on a Part 125 cert. Absolutely not possible and there would be no business reason for it as well.

I'm (or was, I don't have to deal with that much crap anymore) usually more than a casual observer when I dealt with some of that real VIP crap (For the record, I don't miss it either). I was privy to the obvious security stuff, and when it came to the "men in black hiding in the bushes" I wasn't too sure that anybody outside the government was actually privy to their presence.

I find transport category aircraft (outside of the BBJ) that are operated outside of the airlines just really, really fascinating. Their operators, mission profiles, and heck even 125 in general just really piques my curiosity.

To whoever cares: Can I at least get credit for guessing the operator of the original 767 correctly?

 

[GVFlyer]

Just out of curiosity, what company in that list operates the 757 at BUR? Out of further curiosity, are the companies that fly transports on behalf of the US Government (but not registered/operated by the USAF such as the 89th) in that list as well? I would have pegged the guy as flying for mideast jet, but discussing the LJ60, FA50, and GV make me wonder as I *think* mideast jet only holds a Part 125 cert. The other question is is it accurate to assume all four of the those aircraft are on the same certificate?

David Thomas and Mohamed al Hanno at Mideast Jet operate a fleet of Bombardier products in addition to their Boeings. They probably got a special package deal that included Ski-Doo snowmobiles, SeaDoo watercraft and a light rail system.

I've known Mohammed since he was a co-pilot for Saudi Medevac so I've been on their B767. Of course, it's not a Gulfstream, but it does have a special forward compartment for the principal's Mercedes. I think their B777 was the first application of an electronic flight bag on the triple seven if you like those large aluminum overcast type aircraft. Personally, I think about 91,000 lbs (G550 MGTOW) is about perfect for a personal/business aircraft.

GV

 

[Spooky 1]

Preferences

David Thomas and Mohamed al Hanno at Mideast Jet operate a fleet of Bombardier products in addition to their Boeings. They probably got a special package deal that included Ski-Doo snowmobiles, SeaDoo watercraft and a light rail system.

I've known Mohammed since he was a co-pilot for Saudi Medevac so I've been on their B767. Of course, it's not a Gulfstream, but it does have a special forward compartment for the principal's Mercedes. I think their B777 was the first application of an electronic flight bag on the triple seven if you like those large aluminum overcast type aircraft. Personally, I think about 91,000 lbs (G550 MGTOW) is about perfect for a personal/business aircraft.

GV

Tell me honestly what would rather be in a G550 for a 12 hour leg, or a Boeing 757 for a 12 hour leg. I think you have done both, so I would value your opinion. I know that looking at crew that gets out of either a GEX or GV after 12 hours, or there abouts, looks beat up compared to the Boeing guys. I would not consider the BBJ in this question simply because the cockpit and especially the noise factor just does not make that airplane a contender for the comfort level one would wish for.

 

[semperfido]

apples and oranges

 

[Spooky 1]

Comfortable, you bet!

apples and oranges

I doubt it for some reason. Lets see, In the GV you have nice IPECO seats, a nice flight deck for sure with all the modern touches possible, but the airplane is lacking any reasonale crew rest facility other than the traditional GV shoebox arrangement or the even more rediculous drop down bunk that you see on the GEX. You don't have the freedom to move around much when the principal is on board and the typical lav is not meant for anyone over 5"10" if that. Now looking at the Boeing you have a nice comfortable flight deck with enough room to stand and stretch without leaving the flight deck. Those IPECO seats are probabbly electric, the humidifier is pretty nice as well. After you are out of the flight deck you have a full size head, a seperate galley, in our case four large articulating seats, video, music, and internet capability, plus two bunks that you can actually get some sleep in. I think hour for hour in the two aircraft, the Boeing wins hands down for comfort and fatigue reduction qualities. Just MHO for what ist worth. Having said all of that I would give my left nut to fly either of the two other (GV/550-GEX) aircraft for awhile at least.

 

[semperfido]

You can't compare a corp 757 to a g550 on a 12 hr leg as far as fatigue is concerned for the reasons you mentioned-- a 757 would be a lot more comfotable, which would equate to less fatigue. Apples and oranges.

 

[fokkerjet]

Interesting that you mention the Glll with the freight door. Gulfstream sold a demonstrator with the cargo door, hard points, etc. to Polaris Aircraft Leasing in SFO and then leased it back for a year or so to take to all the big airshows. When the lease was up, Polaris was stuck with selling it and at the time I was working for AMI in SFO. We tried every trick in the book to move that airplane but we had no takers except perhaps one close deal with Southern Air Transport. What ever they had planned was real hush hush and the funding from Congress just was not there. I thought the aircraft went to Norway, which already had several similar Gulfstreams in service, but perhaps this is the same aircraft we were trying to sell at that time. Don't remember the serial no. but I think it was an AC aircraft.

Same airplane. My parents invested in that thing through Polaris back in the late '80's, then when I worked for Chrysler (aka Gulfstream), it showed up in our hangar one day. I actually think we hauled freight (auto parts) in it once, I don't believe there as any sort of interior in it.......to long ago to remember

 

[User546]

Wow, 757BBJ_Captain must've gotten a long trip right when he became the center of attention in this topic!

 

[Diesel]

Here's a little encounter I had with a "poser".....

I was pumping gas at a little airport near the Johnson Space Center. A tenent with a Cessna 150 claims to be an "AsCan" and have a colorful past flying with the CIA and have experience in a wide variety of interesting airplanes (including F-14s). The subject of his King Air experience comes up and a cruise speed of 150 kts gets mentioned. When I say that seems a little slow, even for an A-90, he gets beligerant, and says I can go back to flying "books" while he has more important stuff to do, like train for his upcoming Shuttle flight.

It didn't make sense. A few days later a gentleman walks in, flashes a badge, claims to be from NASA security, and asks if the afore mentioned person has a plane at our airport. I kindly explain it's our policy not to divulge any information about our tenents. He then asks to rephrase his inquiry and asks if I have seen the person in this glossy 8x10 photo he pulls out of a folder. I answer yes, and suggest he wait to talk to the airport manager. The story makes it to the media in a few days, and it seems our hero had posed his way past security in a number of facilities and installations. It seems he talked a good enough story to enough people, but not the person pumping gas into his plane.

Lilah


The Man Who Walked Into NASA...
On May 5, claiming that he was a CIA agent, an astronaut, a pilot, and recipient of a "Medal of Honor", 44 year old Jerry Whittredge arranged for a virtual tour of NASA's Mission Control at the Marshall Space Flight Center in Houston using falsified credentials, and succeeded in downloading top secret information on the Space Shuttle's thrust propulsion system.

Six days later, using his new found information and his false ID, he walked into the Kingsville Naval Air Station in south Texas and, after meeting with the base commander and several senior pilots, was allowed to train on a T-45 aircraft flight simulator.

Whittredge was arrested in his live-in recreational vehicle in Texas on Sunday, May 10, after using his false credentials to try and get clearance to fly an actual T-45 aircraft.

So here is a little addition to the story. Years ago I was looking at getting some spin training and asked around my airport. Turns out there was a guy that gave spin training in his 150.

We meet up and go fly. He says he got his training from Southeast Asia and he was in Top Gun. The list goes on and on. I fly and spin the plane and spin it some more and then he says you're good to go.

I felt like i had learned a bunch. Wait i flew the whole time.

About a month later i get a call from the fbi. Turns out the guy was caught trying to use sims at the houston space center.

It all comes back around.

 

[User546]

Bump... where are you 757BBJ_Capt??

You've been online recently... Just wanting to make sure you didn't forget about this thread! We're still anxiously awaiting your replies!

 

[2000flyer]

Same airplane. My parents invested in that thing through Polaris back in the late '80's, then when I worked for Chrysler (aka Gulfstream), it showed up in our hangar one day. I actually think we hauled freight (auto parts) in it once, I don't believe there as any sort of interior in it.......to long ago to remember

Many years ago we used to have a Saudi or UAE registered G3 with a cargo door and hoist. Used as an air ambulance with several litters. I've seen it 2 or three times but seeing as it was nearly 20 years ago, I can't tell you if it was the same plane or there is more than one out there.

2000Flyer

 

[AA717driver]

Ok, here's a question: How do corporate operators handle someone who can no longer make it up and down the airstairs?

Can you install a lift in a BBJ (737 variety) or GV? Or do they use an airline type aisle chair and just haul them up the front steps? I shudder at the liability of the latter method.

I saw Larry Flynt's plane in LA the other day. I should have asked them.TC

 

[G4G5]

The same way they handle them on the majors. I had a few flights with Christopher Reves, we actually had to remove some of the wood work in order to get him into the cabin of the Gulfstream.
I will never forget it, I was on the lower half of the wheel chair (carrying his legs). Which put me in a position to look directly into his face when we carried him down the airstairs.
He looked at me and asked, "did you make that landing"?
I replied, "yes, sir".
His response, "best landing I have ever had, I didn't feel a thing"

One of the few times that I have been left absolulty speechless

 

[semperfido]

Ok, here's a question: How do corporate operators handle someone who can no longer make it up and down the airstairs?

Can you install a lift in a BBJ (737 variety) or GV? Or do they use an airline type aisle chair and just haul them up the front steps? I shudder at the liability of the latter method.

I saw Larry Flynt's plane in LA the other day. I should have asked them.TC

Gulfstream makes an electric chair system that attaches to the airstairs. It is assembled and dis-assembled by the crew before and after use. Takes about 15 min to assemble and 10 min to dis-assemble. Seems to work well. The elec chair just goes up the stairs.