B6 to Sell FIVE A-320s

[3BCat]

...wouldn't you agree that having representation onboard, to prevent unilateral imposition of terms, would be a good thing?

NO. Representation means I don't have direct contact with management. It means no real voice. Representatives, no matter how well intended, do not speak adequately for me.

15 year pin at ALPA - those dues bought me a contract that doesn't apply to me anymore. It didn't save my pension, it didn't even protect my job. At least now, I can have an audience with anyone, anytime I please. The doors are open. I take charge of my own issues, they get heard, and acted upon.

Unilateral imposition of terms? No worries!! If they impose some new rule on me, how is that any different??? I don't have to pay for it!!!

 

[Patriot328]

This 190 situation is running along the same "track". Q2,3,4 anticipated profit for a net loss in 06 with all of 07 anticipated in profit. This is not short term thinking.

FlyI had an anticipated profit in '07, fwiw....

My point as to scope is that we, being jetblue as a whole, (crap, I am sounding like a lawyer now) dont farm out our flying or contract with regionals to do the express or smaller market service. We do it ourselves. Not that there is anything wrong with the regionals, I was there, but the company has decided to keep it all under one roof and we like it that way.

What if you, being jetblue as a whole, decides to farm out 50 seat-100 seat flying to CHQ or some other place that can do it for even less....? Who will stop it?

"Look guys, we'd REALLY like you to do the flying here at jetblue, but it's just tooooo expensive... we can do it for cheaper using XYZ or you could match their rates and we can keep it in house."


I admire jetblue's relationship with their employees. They do seem to have a good thing going. Do remember, however, jetblue is not a jobs program. It doesn't exist for the sake of employing people. It exists to make money for the owners (shareholders), nothing else.

 

[curtaindriver]

Who anticipated FLYi making a profit in '07? Drawing any correlation between Jetblue and FLYi is ridiculous and unfounded.

CD

 

[FDJ2]

NO. Representation means I don't have direct contact with management. It means no real voice. Representatives, no matter how well intended, do not speak adequately for me.

So you believe in each pilot negotiating individually versus collectively with their management, each pilot resolving issues individually vs collectively, each pilot deciding individually vs collectively when they'll give the company relief on certain items?

 

[Longhorn]

Ok...I think the answer to all of this is we have to all agree to disagree. I think that would solve all of this. All the discussion on here wont change many of our minds, but actions will. We will have to just see what happens. Ok, I am off to the beach for the afternoon...theres a cold beer waiting for for me somewhere!!!

 

[JP4user]

I'd really like jp4user to explain in detail how United is SO much better than JetBlue pilot-wise.

You should probably ask a United pilot that.

Never assume chump.

 

[bluejuice787]

I seriously doubt JP4user ever served one day in the service.

 

[JP4user]

I seriously doubt JP4user ever served one day in the service.

Maybe...maybe not. Either way a very assinine assumption to make given the fact that I believe you are whoring the profession to clean airplanes. But when you look at the types applying over there in Smurfville that are satisfied to fly for those 190 rates, anything is possible.

 

[bluejuice787]

Maybe...maybe not. Either way a very assinine assumption to make given the fact that I believe you are whoring the profession to clean airplanes. But when you look at the types applying over there in Smurfville that are satisfied to fly for those 190 rates, anything is possible.

Assumption yes, assinine no. Your attitude and tone are suspect when it comes to military bearing (no offence to non military types as this can be learned any place) and this easily leads to the assumption I made. You want handouts and we make things happen.

 

[hatetoadmitit]

Maybe...maybe not. Either way a very assinine assumption to make given the fact that I believe you are whoring the profession to clean airplanes. But when you look at the types applying over there in Smurfville that are satisfied to fly for those 190 rates, anything is possible.

I know I can't convince you that JetBlue is a good company to work for, but maybe I can help you understand why I choose the E-190 even with the pay rates. I originally wanted to work for UPS, but for some reason that job never happened. I had a real good friend that had been trying to get me to apply to JetBlue for several years. I finnally relented and was hired. I made the assumption several years ago that first year pay at any airline was going to be painful and saved money for the time when me and my family would take the financial hit. At UPS I was expecting a first year pay of $26000 at JetBlue I am expecting $35,000. At UPS second year pay would be $54,000 or $80,000 depending on the ability to upgrade from flight engineer to First Officer. At the time I was applying with UPS I probably would have been a Flight Engineer for about two years and roughly the same pay. That is only a guess not an exact upgrade time. Might be shorter. Might be longer. At JetBlue I am guessing I will upgrade in 12 to 14 months and my pay should be roughly $75,000 to $80,000 a year. But like I said that is only a guess. Might be shorter. Might be longer. And after about five years my pay should go to about $120,000 to $130,000 a year depending on my ability to upgrade to the Airbus. Again the time frame might be shorter or it might be longer. Anyways I'm getting long here. My point is that "for the first couple of years" JetBlue is financially a better company for me. There may be some things that I haven't thought about in my calculations, but they are some of the reasons I use to support the reason I came to JetBlue. I also believe that this shows we are not the only one with low pay rates "initially".

 

[Mamma]

Maybe...maybe not. Either way a very assinine assumption to make given the fact that I believe you are whoring the profession to clean airplanes. But when you look at the types applying over there in Smurfville that are satisfied to fly for those 190 rates, anything is possible.

Are you insane? If you have not noticed, the topic of cleaning has been beaten to death. B6 pilots don't have to clean the cabin. It is only encouraged to speed things up if everything is already done and they are just standing around. I already addressed this topic to you earlier. Looks like you are set in your ways and nothing sinks in. By the way 32, what types are you referring to as to those at B6? Thank God they are not types like you. Negative, can't do attitude, whining and endless bitching gets any business nowhere. I recall 32 used Smurfville. Are you 32? Could not stand the heat being 32 anymore? Come on now and fess up.

 

[JP4user]

Assumption yes, assinine no. Your attitude and tone are suspect when it comes to military bearing (no offence to non military types as this can be learned any place) and this easily leads to the assumption I made. You want handouts and we make things happen.

Handouts? This has what to do with whoring yourself by cleaning? But as I said before think what you must it really makes not one bit of difference to me. The truth however would greatly surprise you.

 

[JP4user]

Are you insane? If you have not noticed, the topic of cleaning has been beaten to death. B6 pilots don't have to clean the cabin. It is only encouraged to speed things up if everything is already done and they are just standing around. I already addressed this topic to you earlier. Looks like you are set in your ways and nothing sinks in. By the way 32, what types are you referring to as to those at B6? Thank God they are not types like you. Negative, can't do attitude, whining and endless bitching gets any business nowhere. I recall 32 used Smurfville. Are you 32? Could not stand the heat being 32 anymore? Come on now and fess up.

Types? Look at your W2 or your W2 from your 190 guys. Tyoes like "me" would never bother to apply or need to for that matter.

No I am not 32 but I don't care if you believe it or not. But some piece of detective work there you have done. I use the term Smurfville and that menas I am him. LOL...

I hardly believe with the kool aid atmosphere if you flat out refused (i.e standing up for your dignity) to clean the airplanes it would result in your 5 year employment contract being renewed. You would be marked for having an attitude problem.

But go ahead. Management is rolling on the floor laughing at you guys for cutting costs by being tidy boys and girls. What's next fueling?

Run along now, aisle 14 needs to have some pillows realigned.

 

[Andy]

Who anticipated FLYi making a profit in '07? Drawing any correlation between Jetblue and FLYi is ridiculous and unfounded.

CD

You're correct that any correlation between JBLU and FLYI is rediculous. But let me try:
FLYI RJ CASM ~22 cents A319 CASM ~7 cents
JBLU E190 CASM ~13 cents A320 CASM ~8 cents

JBLU's CASM is rising significantly faster than its RASM, and this trend will be exacerbated by the E190 - I do not anticipate RASM to rise much with the addition of the E190.

FLYI had massive bills coming due for aircraft orders leases, which they were not able to meet with cash on hand and were not able to borrow money at a favorable enough rate to pay those leases in a timely manner.
JBLU has expenses for 'aircraft and related flight equipment, including estimated amounts for contractual price escalations and predelivery deposits, will be approximately $890 million for the remainder of 2006...' (from JBLU 1Q2006 10Q).
JBLU had it's credit rating lowered by Moody's in April. That will make the cost of borrowing money higher; although not significant enough that it would shut off that avenue of raising $500+ million needed to keep JBLU going through 2006.

Watch the cash on hand. Look for JBLU to do a shelf filing. Look for JBLU to issue more bonds. They are cash poor, and will need to get additional cash before the end of the year. If any of those means of raising cash is turned off to JBLU, they will be in trouble. The cash on hand is what killed FLYI. And Eastern. And Braniff. And Pan Am. And People Express.

I think that the comparison between JBLU and People Express is much more valid than comparing JBLU to FLYI. Now a comparison between JBLU and LUV would be totally absurd.

 

[JP4user]

I know I can't convince you that JetBlue is a good company to work for, but maybe I can help you understand why I choose the E-190 even with the pay rates. I originally wanted to work for UPS, but for some reason that job never happened. I had a real good friend that had been trying to get me to apply to JetBlue for several years. I finnally relented and was hired. I made the assumption several years ago that first year pay at any airline was going to be painful and saved money for the time when me and my family would take the financial hit. At UPS I was expecting a first year pay of $26000 at JetBlue I am expecting $35,000. At UPS second year pay would be $54,000 or $80,000 depending on the ability to upgrade from flight engineer to First Officer. At the time I was applying with UPS I probably would have been a Flight Engineer for about two years and roughly the same pay. That is only a guess not an exact upgrade time. Might be shorter. Might be longer. At JetBlue I am guessing I will upgrade in 12 to 14 months and my pay should be roughly $75,000 to $80,000 a year. But like I said that is only a guess. Might be shorter. Might be longer. And after about five years my pay should go to about $120,000 to $130,000 a year depending on my ability to upgrade to the Airbus. Again the time frame might be shorter or it might be longer. Anyways I'm getting long here. My point is that "for the first couple of years" JetBlue is financially a better company for me. There may be some things that I haven't thought about in my calculations, but they are some of the reasons I use to support the reason I came to JetBlue. I also believe that this shows we are not the only one with low pay rates "initially".

Your short term calculations are probably correct. But when the growth stops and you look at what happens then that is what you need to consider. The whole idea of accepting the low 190 rates sort of comes to the surface with your well written post. There are alot of what if and hopes in there maianly dependent on growth to move up and out of the lower pay bracket.

If you are looking back from where you would be at 60 in a worst case scenario, I still can't fathom why anyone would choose Blue as a career.

I do wish, especially level headed people like you, the best. Because raises for you is good for everyone in this industry.