B6 to Sell FIVE A-320s

[Andy]

AND we are still accepting 12 new aircraft this year, so, we are still PLUS 7 new aircraft for the year.

I show that JBLU has firm deliveries for 16 A320s this year. Are you saying that JBLU's already taken delivery of 4 and has 12 to go? Either way, it's still net growth.

 

[Andy]

yield does not equal enough revenue if the flights you are flying have high costs, such as high landing fees, high pay of local personel, etc. that is just diluting the market. they obviously did the typical corporate thing and expanded too fast. so now they are getting rid of lease payments, having to pay less overhead, and being able to focus on higher yield flights to offset whatever is causing this profit fall, probably high gas prices and high competition.

big al, I couldn't let this one go ... it's been bugging me for the last two days. Goggles is correct and you are wrong. Let me explain in detail, using JBLU's 1Q2006 10Q.
Yield, when talking in airline earningsspeak, is yield per passenger mile. It is simply passenger revenue per ASM (PRASM) divided by the passenger load factor.
In 1Q2006, JBLU had a PRASM of 7.04 cents and a load factor of 84.2%. You take 7.04 divided by .842 and you come up with 8.361045. JBLU reported a yield of 8.37 cents in the quarter.
All of that does not take into account CASM (cost per available seat mile), which was 7.84 cents. Not good, since JBLU's RASM was 7.46. (RASM is higher than PRASM due to JBLU earning money for hauling cargo and mail).

 

[seahorse]

2. Cleaning the cabin is a different thought process. But no different than helping your loadmaster with a quick turn in the military. Its a Leadership/teamwork thing I am surprised more folks don't understand.

LOL, that's funny. Since when did cleaning the shi.tters become a "leadership" thing. Sounds like bullsh.it to me (pun intended!!)

 

[starvingredtail]

LOL, that's funny. Since when did cleaning the shi.tters become a "leadership" thing. Sounds like bullsh.it to me (pun intended!!)

The leadership issue you don't understand is "don't ask anyone to do something you wouldn't do yourself" We do not clean the $hitters, but I have in previous lineman jobs. I also do not look down on the $hitter cleaners the way you do. Its a leadership thing and either you get it or you don't.

 

[starvingredtail]

My Quote
The factual track record is the fact that the 320 pay started low and a pay raise came based on input from the pilot group. This 190 situation is running along the same "track". Q2,3,4 anticipated profit for a net loss in 06 with all of 07 anticipated in profit. This is not short term thinking. Have your hatefest if you wish, its a free country but lets deal in facts. I am pretty sure the entire indusrty will be dealing with pain, pain, pain for the next 5 years because of oil uncertainty and management having the upper hand with labor. I think I already know DN's true colors and they are nothing like Doug Steenland's.

Taking this all a little personally aren't you. Sorry your company has to take drastic measures in the face of millions in losses but your "hate fest" (spelled correctly) comment is way off base. I have more friends at B6 then you have friends. I want them to succeed and fulfill a long career. However, in my opinion, B6's financial success is bleak and the selling of 5 aircraft is a just line (since we are correcting spelling, don't you mean "just a line"?)in the blueprint of financial disaster.
You can anticipate all you want that doesn't make it fact. Companies always project positive news. I wonder why. Duh! You should probably put down the USA Today and pick up a WSJ and learn something about quarterly projections from corporations.
The facts of the case are simple and you don't like it. Too bad.

Hey DH2,
Thanks for correcting me on hate fest. I knew you would know how to spell it right. If you re-read my quote, I do not make the connection between me taking any of this personally. I am glad you have more friends than me....sigh...,you must be really cool. I am also glad you have friends at B6. Do they agree with your outlook? Like I said before, 3x% growth was too agressive. The rate has been slowed to 2x%. Yes, these adjustments are a reaction to millions in losses. I disagree--as do most financial analysts in the WSJ--with your assertion that we are facing financial disaster. (By the way, as a brother mil guy, you know that I wouldn't wipe my a$$ with the USA today.) Once again,(and check this with your countless friends at B6) the anticipation I have for our leadership, DN in particular, to do the right thing is based on their track record. Look it up. They have consistently done what is right--including pay raises--over the last 6 1/2 years. You state "the facts of the case are simple and that I don't like it" Look, I did 20+ years in the mil, flew 4 major weapon systems in 3 different commands. I spent 8 years at NWA. The facts of the case are simple--and I do like it. Its a great place to work and if, as you fear, B6 falls by the wayside, I will look back at working at B6 as the best place that I have ever worked because they really level with you. The concept that all companies project positive news is a given--but the difference is that B6 has a track record of doing what it says it is going to do and owning up if they make a mistake. Its that simple and if this explination seems to you that I am taking it personally--then I guess I can't change your mind.
NEW STANDARD DISCLAIMER:
1. 190 rates are low. B6 leadership knows this and I trust them to fix it like they did 320 pay. They have a track record for doing what is right.
2. Cleaning the cabin is a different thought process. But no different than helping your loadmaster with a quick turn in the military. Its a Leadership/teamwork thing I am surprised more folks don't understand. (and hot young FA's smell better than loadmasters and their smiles of appreciation warm my old heart) I am sorry that JP4user did not understand leadership while he served in the military. Some never get it. (p.s. we do not clean the $hitters)
3. Contract/No Union--Screw ALPA. Paid dues for 8 years at NWA and recieved nothing because I was so junior. Good leadership at B6 goes a long way. The worst day at B6 is far better than a good day at ALPA.

Now I return you to your previously scheduled B6 bashfest.(bash fest?)

 

[JP4user]

More rationalizing

Its a leadership thing and either you get it or you don't.

Some leadership example cleaning the cabins.

Who are you trying to impress the foreign speakers looking for minimum wage jobs or management laughing their tails off while you perform another job for free?

But that janitorial experince must be helping you out in this area. With part of your leading by example do the other Smurfs get to hear? Is it your speech about your aviation background complete with violin music in the background?

 

[JP4user]

We do not clean the $hitters

Not yet.....but what is to stop them if they decide? Your collective bargaining agreement? Your 5 year contract?

You worked for the 190 rates you will do toilets if told. And you will enjoy every blue minute of it.

 

[Longhorn]

Jesus....we are not even REQUIRED to clean. No place does it say that we HAVE to clean the airplane. We do it to help out and keep the moral up between crews. We also do it to get the plane back in the air asap and make some $$. At best, we help put the used headsets and light paperwork on the seats in a trash bag and help cross a few seatbelts. It takes all of 5 min at most and only done if there is time. If its a quick turn I do not clean, I have other things to do..preflight, grab lunch etc. This cleaning issue needs to stop. We are not required to clean

 

[FDJ2]

I am simply talking about the track record of our mgnt. They have held their end of the deal up for us so why would we want to go out and seek representation?

Longhorn, I'm glad you're happy with how management has treated you so far. I hope that doesn't change, but if it does, wouldn't you agree that having representation onboard, to prevent unilateral imposition of terms, would be a good thing?

 

[ATR-DRIVR]

Some leadership example cleaning the cabins.

Who are you trying to impress the foreign speakers looking for minimum wage jobs or management laughing their tails off while you perform another job for free?

But that janitorial experince must be helping you out in this area. With part of your leading by example do the other Smurfs get to hear? Is it your speech about your aviation background complete with violin music in the background?

I'd really like jp4user to explain in detail how United is SO much better than JetBlue pilot-wise. How his position towers above all others. How much taking a few minutes after a flight to assist the rest of the cabin crew is so below him or other United pilots. I would venture a guess that there are many excellent pilots there who help out the folks in back and do it with a smile.
And mainly, can he do these explanations without the insults, snide comments and 'holier than thou' attitude....
You have the floor.

 

[3BCat]

...wouldn't you agree that having representation onboard, to prevent unilateral imposition of terms, would be a good thing?

NO. Representation means I don't have direct contact with management. It means no real voice. Representatives, no matter how well intended, do not speak adequately for me.

15 year pin at ALPA - those dues bought me a contract that doesn't apply to me anymore. It didn't save my pension, it didn't even protect my job. At least now, I can have an audience with anyone, anytime I please. The doors are open. I take charge of my own issues, they get heard, and acted upon.

Unilateral imposition of terms? No worries!! If they impose some new rule on me, how is that any different??? I don't have to pay for it!!!

 

[Patriot328]

This 190 situation is running along the same "track". Q2,3,4 anticipated profit for a net loss in 06 with all of 07 anticipated in profit. This is not short term thinking.

FlyI had an anticipated profit in '07, fwiw....

My point as to scope is that we, being jetblue as a whole, (crap, I am sounding like a lawyer now) dont farm out our flying or contract with regionals to do the express or smaller market service. We do it ourselves. Not that there is anything wrong with the regionals, I was there, but the company has decided to keep it all under one roof and we like it that way.

What if you, being jetblue as a whole, decides to farm out 50 seat-100 seat flying to CHQ or some other place that can do it for even less....? Who will stop it?

"Look guys, we'd REALLY like you to do the flying here at jetblue, but it's just tooooo expensive... we can do it for cheaper using XYZ or you could match their rates and we can keep it in house."


I admire jetblue's relationship with their employees. They do seem to have a good thing going. Do remember, however, jetblue is not a jobs program. It doesn't exist for the sake of employing people. It exists to make money for the owners (shareholders), nothing else.

 

[curtaindriver]

Who anticipated FLYi making a profit in '07? Drawing any correlation between Jetblue and FLYi is ridiculous and unfounded.

CD

 

[FDJ2]

NO. Representation means I don't have direct contact with management. It means no real voice. Representatives, no matter how well intended, do not speak adequately for me.

So you believe in each pilot negotiating individually versus collectively with their management, each pilot resolving issues individually vs collectively, each pilot deciding individually vs collectively when they'll give the company relief on certain items?

 

[Longhorn]

Ok...I think the answer to all of this is we have to all agree to disagree. I think that would solve all of this. All the discussion on here wont change many of our minds, but actions will. We will have to just see what happens. Ok, I am off to the beach for the afternoon...theres a cold beer waiting for for me somewhere!!!

 

[JP4user]

I'd really like jp4user to explain in detail how United is SO much better than JetBlue pilot-wise.

You should probably ask a United pilot that.

Never assume chump.

 

[bluejuice787]

I seriously doubt JP4user ever served one day in the service.

 

[JP4user]

I seriously doubt JP4user ever served one day in the service.

Maybe...maybe not. Either way a very assinine assumption to make given the fact that I believe you are whoring the profession to clean airplanes. But when you look at the types applying over there in Smurfville that are satisfied to fly for those 190 rates, anything is possible.

 

[bluejuice787]

Maybe...maybe not. Either way a very assinine assumption to make given the fact that I believe you are whoring the profession to clean airplanes. But when you look at the types applying over there in Smurfville that are satisfied to fly for those 190 rates, anything is possible.

Assumption yes, assinine no. Your attitude and tone are suspect when it comes to military bearing (no offence to non military types as this can be learned any place) and this easily leads to the assumption I made. You want handouts and we make things happen.

 

[hatetoadmitit]

Maybe...maybe not. Either way a very assinine assumption to make given the fact that I believe you are whoring the profession to clean airplanes. But when you look at the types applying over there in Smurfville that are satisfied to fly for those 190 rates, anything is possible.

I know I can't convince you that JetBlue is a good company to work for, but maybe I can help you understand why I choose the E-190 even with the pay rates. I originally wanted to work for UPS, but for some reason that job never happened. I had a real good friend that had been trying to get me to apply to JetBlue for several years. I finnally relented and was hired. I made the assumption several years ago that first year pay at any airline was going to be painful and saved money for the time when me and my family would take the financial hit. At UPS I was expecting a first year pay of $26000 at JetBlue I am expecting $35,000. At UPS second year pay would be $54,000 or $80,000 depending on the ability to upgrade from flight engineer to First Officer. At the time I was applying with UPS I probably would have been a Flight Engineer for about two years and roughly the same pay. That is only a guess not an exact upgrade time. Might be shorter. Might be longer. At JetBlue I am guessing I will upgrade in 12 to 14 months and my pay should be roughly $75,000 to $80,000 a year. But like I said that is only a guess. Might be shorter. Might be longer. And after about five years my pay should go to about $120,000 to $130,000 a year depending on my ability to upgrade to the Airbus. Again the time frame might be shorter or it might be longer. Anyways I'm getting long here. My point is that "for the first couple of years" JetBlue is financially a better company for me. There may be some things that I haven't thought about in my calculations, but they are some of the reasons I use to support the reason I came to JetBlue. I also believe that this shows we are not the only one with low pay rates "initially".