B19 Flyer

[B19 Flyer]

Based on FACT.. not opinion!

It is a weak argument. It's not based on fact. It's based on your opinion.

Managment reiterated it's stance on no furloughs at NetJets by the way. Who's telling you we are going to furlough? You might want to check your sources (unless his initials are RTS).

Based in Fact as previously stated:

Case in point, Delta's ability to stave off bankruptcy or near bankruptcy for two years longer than the others with minimal impact on the overall workforce because they were the least unionized legacy carrier.

And.. to add to this, Delta mechanics decided to keep it that way by dumping the NWA union:

Delta mechanics rebuff union

The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Thursday, February 26, 2009
The mechanics union at Northwest Airlines will not represent any mechanics at merger partner Delta Air Lines, after failing to garner enough support among the combined mechanics group.
Northwest mechanics were represented by the small Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association, which waged a 15-month strike at the carrier ending in 2006 and was smaller and weaker afterward.
AMFA said in a memo to its Northwest members on its web site that it did not collect enough authorization cards during a card drive to meet the required number to file for representation of the combined workforce. The minimum is generally 35 percent. The union filed to end its representation and the National Mediation Board accepted the request Thursday, Delta said.
The Mediation Board facilitates labor-management relations at airlines and railroads.
The mechanics union faced a steep challenge to unionize mechanics at the combined airline because the Northwest mechanics were greatly outnumbered by non-union Delta mechanics.
About 5,000 employees from Delta and 1,000 from Northwest make up the mechanics and related group, and the Northwest group includes hundreds who are replacement workers from the strike and do not pay union dues.
Northwest is heavily unionized while at Delta pilots are the only major workgroup that is unionized.
As the merger partners combine operations, unions at Northwest can file for elections to extend their representation to Delta employees. The Association of Flight Attendants and International Association of Machinists are working on representation campaigns before seeking a vote.
Delta closed its deal to acquire Northwest last October, and in January mechanics from Northwest approved an agreement to integrate seniority lists with Delta mechanics.
AMFA and Delta have also agreed to a transition commitment with Delta to bring pay, seniority and benefits of mechanics and related employees from Northwest to the same levels as Delta mechanics and related workers. The union said that move would bring the group to be called a single carrier by the National Mediation Board, which would have triggered a process to determining whether the combined Delta employees are represented by a union or not.
“To prolong the single transportation system determination any longer would be a disservice to those that we currently represent at the former Northwest Airlines,” according to the AMFA memo to its Northwest members.
Delta said union dues will be eliminated immediately. The Northwest mechanics will transition to Delta benefits starting in January 2010.

 

[Freedom]

Bob19....McFly, McFly...

How many times do we have to tell you:

THIS IS THE FRACTIONAL INDUSTRY, NOT THE AIRLINE INDUSTRY!

But you know that of course. Its simply you using the only facts available to you to earn your Ford and Harrison paycheck.

Funny, I would have though your Flight Options paycheck would have been enough for you.

But then I forget about your level of GREED.


Since you are so interested in quoting history from the Airline Industry, why don't you spend the majority of your time there instead of here?

Of yeah, I forgot, you get paid to Union Bust for Flight Options Management.


What a tool.


Freedom is Not Free

 

[fischman]

Based in Fact as previously stated:

Case in point, Delta's ability to stave off bankruptcy or near bankruptcy for two years longer than the others with minimal impact on the overall workforce because they were the least unionized legacy carrier.

And.. to add to this, Delta mechanics decided to keep it that way by dumping the NWA union:

Delta mechanics rebuff union

The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Thursday, February 26, 2009
The mechanics union at Northwest Airlines will not represent any mechanics at merger partner Delta Air Lines, after failing to garner enough support among the combined mechanics group.
Northwest mechanics were represented by the small Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association, which waged a 15-month strike at the carrier ending in 2006 and was smaller and weaker afterward.
AMFA said in a memo to its Northwest members on its web site that it did not collect enough authorization cards during a card drive to meet the required number to file for representation of the combined workforce. The minimum is generally 35 percent. The union filed to end its representation and the National Mediation Board accepted the request Thursday, Delta said.
The Mediation Board facilitates labor-management relations at airlines and railroads.
The mechanics union faced a steep challenge to unionize mechanics at the combined airline because the Northwest mechanics were greatly outnumbered by non-union Delta mechanics.
About 5,000 employees from Delta and 1,000 from Northwest make up the mechanics and related group, and the Northwest group includes hundreds who are replacement workers from the strike and do not pay union dues.
Northwest is heavily unionized while at Delta pilots are the only major workgroup that is unionized.
As the merger partners combine operations, unions at Northwest can file for elections to extend their representation to Delta employees. The Association of Flight Attendants and International Association of Machinists are working on representation campaigns before seeking a vote.
Delta closed its deal to acquire Northwest last October, and in January mechanics from Northwest approved an agreement to integrate seniority lists with Delta mechanics.
AMFA and Delta have also agreed to a transition commitment with Delta to bring pay, seniority and benefits of mechanics and related employees from Northwest to the same levels as Delta mechanics and related workers. The union said that move would bring the group to be called a single carrier by the National Mediation Board, which would have triggered a process to determining whether the combined Delta employees are represented by a union or not.
“To prolong the single transportation system determination any longer would be a disservice to those that we currently represent at the former Northwest Airlines,” according to the AMFA memo to its Northwest members.
Delta said union dues will be eliminated immediately. The Northwest mechanics will transition to Delta benefits starting in January 2010.

So did you post that hoping no one would read it? All it is is an artile stating that the NWA mechanics union (which is full of scabs) will not represent delta mechanics. It has no bearing on your argument, and I stand by my statement that it is based only on YOUR opinion.

 

[B19 Flyer]

How many times do we have to tell you:

THIS IS THE FRACTIONAL INDUSTRY, NOT THE AIRLINE INDUSTRY!

But you know that of course. Its simply you using the only facts available to you to earn your Ford and Harrison paycheck.

Funny, I would have though your Flight Options paycheck would have been enough for you.

But then I forget about your level of GREED.


Since you are so interested in quoting history from the Airline Industry, why don't you spend the majority of your time there instead of here?

Of yeah, I forgot, you get paid to Union Bust for Flight Options Management.


What a tool.


Freedom is Not Free

A union is a union. It doesn't make any difference if it's the UAW, ALPA, NJASAP. They all work on the same principal. Fear, mobs, mongering and blackmail.

Fractionals are a new industry. Unions are going to ruin them, pure and simple.

Oh, and let me drop a hint to you... a fractional is an airline. Part 119 ... you can't hide from it.

 

[PCL_128]

They all work on the same principal. Fear, mobs, mongering and blackmail.

Sounds more like management to me. You're a perfect example.

 

[Hogprint]

I wonder if B19 realizes that he's the only one in here throwing roundhouse's...

At least during the NJA contract the management boys had a few helping hands.

It's lonely out there...in the dark...

 

[Hogprint]

Double post...sorry

 

[B19 Flyer]

Now that's funny....

I wonder if B19 realizes that he's the only one in here throwing roundhouse's...

At least during the NJA contract the management boys had a few helping hands.

It's lonely out there...in the dark...

Now that's funny.... I get more than enough PMs to know that I'm anything but alone...

Part of the problem is that any support I get is from folks that other posters know who they are and don't want to show they aren't part of the crowd. It's one of those "all or nothing" union attitudes that one has to go along with, even if they don't believe in it.

As a result, they know and can't support me or my down to earth, support the company, the industry and the family attitudes on this board, so I get a PM instead.

You see, you union folks only care about what happens to them. They don't care what happens to the company, because it's never their fault if it fails, it must be management's fault. They don't care about the company as a whole or the industry. They don't care about family values outside of their own or what happens to those that support them as pilots or mechanics. They only care about what they can squeeze out of the company.

NJW made the perfect comment when she made the statement that rank and file workers had the same opportunities to be pilots too. It was clear she didn't care about anybody except the union. That's the union way, that’s the union attitude.

As we watch over the next couple of years, one union after another get crushed because they won't budge off their contract and their company can't be competitive with the market place. The company will then fail taking their jobs (and a lot of innocent non-union jobs) with them. All of them will have the opportunity to make the company competitive, yet they will stand by their CBA. UAW is going to fight and lose that battle because they just flat can't be competitive with their non-union counterparts here in the states.

If you get that big union contract, and the company fails, you blame the company and figure that the unreasonable demands had nothing to do with it.


Am I alone? Not at all. The PMs I get support me, and even if they didn't... I would still support the company, the family, the industry and continued sustainability of non-union workers stuck in a union world they didn't ask for or want.

 

[fischman]

Now that's funny.... I get more than enough PMs to know that I'm anything but alone...

Bullcrap. De-identify and post them if you REALLY get PMs from cowardly "supporters" to are too chicken to post their views for all to see.

They are probably all scabs anyway who care for no one but themselves, so who cares what they think.

They don't care what happens to the company, because it's never their fault if it fails, it must be management's fault.

To say that I as a union supporter don't care about the financial stability of NetJets it just stupid. I know where my bread and butter comes from. If the company fails, it is not the union's fault. Management MANAGES the company, not the union.

If they didn't approve of the CBA, they shouldn't have signed it.

 

[brokeflyer]

management needs to "manage" a little better to avoid going down the tubes. That is why NJ is a great place to work. Managment actully helps US do our jobs.

If you give concessions to save the company then all you do is DOOM it. Those give backs will never end and the company will go under. It has nothing to do with a union on the property.

Stop blaming the union for everything, they don't run the company, management does, or is supposed to.

 

[7777]

Am I alone? Not at all. The PMs I get support me, and even if they didn't... I would still support the company, the family, the industry and continued sustainability of non-union workers stuck in a union world they didn't ask for or want.

I agree with alot of your points B man. You make some very valid points. You know this though, because I have sent you some PM's on this. This particular quote is a perfect example of how I feel.

Pro Union posters, if unions are all that, then why the push for the Employee Free Choice Act (EFCA)? THAT is bull********************!

For those not in the know, it will allow a union organizer to walk up to an employee and get a yes or no vote on the union card in person. No more secret ballots. WTF is that? This is about intimidation, pure and simple.

I have good friends on both sides of this issue as well. So to answer fischmans question.....here I am. I have sent PM's to B-19 on these issues.

I asked not to be identified because I don't care about this argument as much as you all do. I am in the military now, but would love to work in the industry in the future. I do care about being able to choose for or against a union in private, however, with this EFCA in congress, it is starting to look like communism to me and it is starting to piss me off.

 

[fob727]

Communism??

7777, when you separate from the military get your law degree. B19 can put you to work spreading his BS!uke:

 

[7777]

WTF is it, if it isn't a form of communism fob727?

That is going to shoot your union drive in the foot with alot of Americans like myself.

Why do you think these union organizers want this....really?

EDIT: I don't hide how I feel about issues and will not cower to the union if I end up working for a union company. IF I feel the union is the right thing for the company, I will vote yes. If I don't, I will vote no.

Why would you need to know? Or any other union organizer?

 

[GerryG]

Pro Union posters, if unions are all that, then why the push for the Employee Free Choice Act (EFCA)? THAT is bull********************!

For those not in the know, it will allow a union organizer to walk up to an employee and get a yes or no vote on the union card in person. No more secret ballots. WTF is that? This is about intimidation, pure and simple.

Here it the truth about the Employee Free Choice Act. Take a look at item #7:

http://www.aflcio.org/joinaunion/voiceatwork/efca/10keyfacts.cfm

 

[7777]

LOL, that says nothing to me. How does that majority sign up work?

Are you saying that the union organizers will NOT know how employees vote with this EFCA? Just cut to the chase please. I don't need the BS. There is enough of that in this thread.

Give me credible sources too please. AFL/CIO isn't going to cut it for me as they are the ones pushing it....right?