B19 Flyer

[Hogprint]

I wonder if B19 realizes that he's the only one in here throwing roundhouse's...

At least during the NJA contract the management boys had a few helping hands.

It's lonely out there...in the dark...

 

[Hogprint]

Double post...sorry

 

[B19 Flyer]

Now that's funny....

I wonder if B19 realizes that he's the only one in here throwing roundhouse's...

At least during the NJA contract the management boys had a few helping hands.

It's lonely out there...in the dark...

Now that's funny.... I get more than enough PMs to know that I'm anything but alone...

Part of the problem is that any support I get is from folks that other posters know who they are and don't want to show they aren't part of the crowd. It's one of those "all or nothing" union attitudes that one has to go along with, even if they don't believe in it.

As a result, they know and can't support me or my down to earth, support the company, the industry and the family attitudes on this board, so I get a PM instead.

You see, you union folks only care about what happens to them. They don't care what happens to the company, because it's never their fault if it fails, it must be management's fault. They don't care about the company as a whole or the industry. They don't care about family values outside of their own or what happens to those that support them as pilots or mechanics. They only care about what they can squeeze out of the company.

NJW made the perfect comment when she made the statement that rank and file workers had the same opportunities to be pilots too. It was clear she didn't care about anybody except the union. That's the union way, that’s the union attitude.

As we watch over the next couple of years, one union after another get crushed because they won't budge off their contract and their company can't be competitive with the market place. The company will then fail taking their jobs (and a lot of innocent non-union jobs) with them. All of them will have the opportunity to make the company competitive, yet they will stand by their CBA. UAW is going to fight and lose that battle because they just flat can't be competitive with their non-union counterparts here in the states.

If you get that big union contract, and the company fails, you blame the company and figure that the unreasonable demands had nothing to do with it.


Am I alone? Not at all. The PMs I get support me, and even if they didn't... I would still support the company, the family, the industry and continued sustainability of non-union workers stuck in a union world they didn't ask for or want.

 

[fischman]

Now that's funny.... I get more than enough PMs to know that I'm anything but alone...

Bullcrap. De-identify and post them if you REALLY get PMs from cowardly "supporters" to are too chicken to post their views for all to see.

They are probably all scabs anyway who care for no one but themselves, so who cares what they think.

They don't care what happens to the company, because it's never their fault if it fails, it must be management's fault.

To say that I as a union supporter don't care about the financial stability of NetJets it just stupid. I know where my bread and butter comes from. If the company fails, it is not the union's fault. Management MANAGES the company, not the union.

If they didn't approve of the CBA, they shouldn't have signed it.

 

[brokeflyer]

management needs to "manage" a little better to avoid going down the tubes. That is why NJ is a great place to work. Managment actully helps US do our jobs.

If you give concessions to save the company then all you do is DOOM it. Those give backs will never end and the company will go under. It has nothing to do with a union on the property.

Stop blaming the union for everything, they don't run the company, management does, or is supposed to.

 

[7777]

Am I alone? Not at all. The PMs I get support me, and even if they didn't... I would still support the company, the family, the industry and continued sustainability of non-union workers stuck in a union world they didn't ask for or want.

I agree with alot of your points B man. You make some very valid points. You know this though, because I have sent you some PM's on this. This particular quote is a perfect example of how I feel.

Pro Union posters, if unions are all that, then why the push for the Employee Free Choice Act (EFCA)? THAT is bull********************!

For those not in the know, it will allow a union organizer to walk up to an employee and get a yes or no vote on the union card in person. No more secret ballots. WTF is that? This is about intimidation, pure and simple.

I have good friends on both sides of this issue as well. So to answer fischmans question.....here I am. I have sent PM's to B-19 on these issues.

I asked not to be identified because I don't care about this argument as much as you all do. I am in the military now, but would love to work in the industry in the future. I do care about being able to choose for or against a union in private, however, with this EFCA in congress, it is starting to look like communism to me and it is starting to piss me off.

 

[fob727]

Communism??

7777, when you separate from the military get your law degree. B19 can put you to work spreading his BS!uke:

 

[7777]

WTF is it, if it isn't a form of communism fob727?

That is going to shoot your union drive in the foot with alot of Americans like myself.

Why do you think these union organizers want this....really?

EDIT: I don't hide how I feel about issues and will not cower to the union if I end up working for a union company. IF I feel the union is the right thing for the company, I will vote yes. If I don't, I will vote no.

Why would you need to know? Or any other union organizer?

 

[GerryG]

Pro Union posters, if unions are all that, then why the push for the Employee Free Choice Act (EFCA)? THAT is bull********************!

For those not in the know, it will allow a union organizer to walk up to an employee and get a yes or no vote on the union card in person. No more secret ballots. WTF is that? This is about intimidation, pure and simple.

Here it the truth about the Employee Free Choice Act. Take a look at item #7:

http://www.aflcio.org/joinaunion/voiceatwork/efca/10keyfacts.cfm

 

[7777]

LOL, that says nothing to me. How does that majority sign up work?

Are you saying that the union organizers will NOT know how employees vote with this EFCA? Just cut to the chase please. I don't need the BS. There is enough of that in this thread.

Give me credible sources too please. AFL/CIO isn't going to cut it for me as they are the ones pushing it....right?

 

[gunfyter]

7777,

I came out of the military in 1993 with really no knowledge of what aviation was like outside the military.... There were no boards like this available to my knowledge plus we had like 300 baud modems I think.

I had the misfortune of working at 3 non-union shops before coming to where I am now. I really was in shock and disbelief at the way pilots were treated and the attitudes of managements. It was sickening.

I guess the only information I had before 1993 was from fellow military aviators and almost all had gone straight from Active Duty to a major like American, Delta, Eastern or United. It all sounded good to me. But I had to fly regionals and 135 non-scheduled.... and contract out of Kuwait and Saudi.

I hope you have a better experience than I did. Without a union... You are on your own out here.... Also keep in mind ... those who came up through the Civilian route ....

They don't go from Military to Major or Frac.... They Instruct, fly night freight in airplanes barely airworthy for VERY little pay and live on ramen noodles ... are abused by management ... Then finally get to go to a Regional ... fly for little pay and get abused and disrespected some more.

Anyone here will tell you these fracs are light years better places to be ... than most of the regionals, 135 companies etc..

You haven't seen the tactics of some managements. I am against CardCheck myself ... But Communism it is not.
Don't be seduced by 19 ... he is part of the Axis of Evil.

 

[7777]

Solid ********************ing post gunfyter. Thanks

I can't say I agree with all that B-19 says but I don't disagree with alot of it either.

I find it funny not a one of these pro union guys/gals has stepped up to the plate to answer my previous question.

I am in the middle really. I know there are some ********************ty management people. There are just as many ********************ty union people.

I get really tired of these types of debates. B-19 has some valid points as do the educated, informed union guys (few and far between in this thread).

It would be nice if everyone could get along really.

Yeah, I know....will never happen and this country will suck as a result.

 

[7777]

BTW gunfyter, you and I know EXACTLY what that 'card check' (as you call it) is about.

It is BULL********************!!!!! IF unions are all that, they wouldn't need that bull********************. Plain and simple.

 

[fob727]

Efca

LOL, that says nothing to me. How does that majority sign up work?

Are you saying that the union organizers will NOT know how employees vote with this EFCA? Just cut to the chase please. I don't need the BS. There is enough of that in this thread.

Give me credible sources too please. AFL/CIO isn't going to cut it for me as they are the ones pushing it....right?

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?c110:4:./temp/~c110cyibXk::

There you go, 7777.

 

[7777]

Thanks for the effort.

It came up with Libarary of Congress....file not found.

 

[B19 Flyer]

Thank you....

I agree with alot of your points B man. You make some very valid points. You know this though, because I have sent you some PM's on this. This particular quote is a perfect example of how I feel.

Pro Union posters, if unions are all that, then why the push for the Employee Free Choice Act (EFCA)? THAT is bull********************!

For those not in the know, it will allow a union organizer to walk up to an employee and get a yes or no vote on the union card in person. No more secret ballots. WTF is that? This is about intimidation, pure and simple.

I have good friends on both sides of this issue as well. So to answer fischmans question.....here I am. I have sent PM's to B-19 on these issues.

I asked not to be identified because I don't care about this argument as much as you all do. I am in the military now, but would love to work in the industry in the future. I do care about being able to choose for or against a union in private, however, with this EFCA in congress, it is starting to look like communism to me and it is starting to piss me off.

7777,

Thanks for your support, there wasn't any reason for you to speak out and I appreciate the backing. As you and the others are aware through our conversations, I'm a man of my word about confidentiality when somebody sends me a PM.

Recent months have been difficult on everybody in all industries including aviation. As things get tighter, I'm increasingly amazed about how little labor is willing to give up. It seems as though labor would prefer the unemployment line to a steady paycheck.

There was a time in this country where organized labor had it's place, but in today's day and age pilots can't be compared to coal miners or steel workers. Pilots work in a highly regulated environment and aren't limited geographically to a specific area or career.

When we talk about the card drives, union members like to talk about the "majority". The "majority" is always within the work group, which means that one work group holds the rest of the workers hostage to their requirments. If other work groups feel a need to protect themselves and their pay, a second union comes on the property, then a third and the next thing you know the entire company is working for the unions and not what is best for the long term well being of the entire organization.

Unions drives don't have the guts to poll and consider the rest of the workers that are affected in the company, because they already know the results. Nobody else in the company wants a union on the property because of the negative impact.

Over the upcoming year, the true union spirit will show through and it will be interesting how many non-union employees will first lose their jobs as a direct result of union members refusing to put the company and well being of the entire company into consideration.

Thanx for the support 7777 and from all the rest of you that I have received support from by my speaking openly where many of you can't because others know who you are. All of us know that speaking against the union way on this board brings the union mongers out of the woodwork.

These union guys just don't "get it" and would prefer to see the company go under rather than create a balance of fairness to preserve the long term financial well being of the entire company.

My experiences with unions make Wall St. look ethical.

 

[Diesel]

Well we found B19's alter ego, 7777. Easy to remember, when you're trying to crush unions.

 

[B19 Flyer]

Be careful what you ask for...

Well we found B19's alter ego, 7777. Easy to remember, when you're trying to crush unions.

Nobody is trying to crush a union, they seem to do a pretty good job of that themselves. Union members get exactly what they ask for, turmoil, grief and a company that can't adjust to the changing economy when times are bad.

It's the non-union worker supporting the union worker that becomes collateral damage, and they didn't want the union in the first place.

Oh, and 7777... you knew that was coming. It took only one post.

 

[fob727]

a different way

Thanks for the effort.

It came up with Libarary of Congress....file not found.

7777, use the afl-cio link that Gerryg gave, in the upper left hand corner there is another link that will take you to the LOC. It provides all the info. you need.

 

[7777]

Well we found B19's alter ego, 7777. Easy to remember, when you're trying to crush unions.

Why, because I am not in agreement with your mindset?

gunfyter earns alot of respect from me for his post. He made some valid points and backed it with his experiences. That is solid.

B-19 does the exact same thing with his posts as well. There are valid arguments on both sides and I am interested in listening and participating when I feel it necessary. B-19 and I have conversed in the past via PM both for and against his arguments.

Fischmen wanted proof, I provided it for him. I have nothing to lose and do not fear retribution for speaking my mind here. I won't when I get into the civilain world either. That is how I am. I could give a ******************** if you like it or not.

BTW, still waiting on that answer to my question about if union organizers will know how employees vote under the Employee Free Choice Act? If so, why? Several have made efforts at answering it.

If unions are everything people on this thread are saying they are, why would they NEED to have this stipulation? This is America....not Russia. We have the freedom to choose; do we not?

B-19, I know I didn't need to speak up and don't regret it. I just get sick of the uneducated debaters on this subject jumping in with their gradeschool tactics.

There are some solid posts for and against the union here. Gunfyter would be a perfect example and he backed it with his experience.

I also consider several that post here for the union, but who are not posting in this thread, friends of mine. I respect their views and know them personally.

You have backed your argument with your experiences as well, and have continued to debate and educate at the same time. It is people like you, Gunfyter and a handful of others on this subject that make it worth reading.

It is amazing how much of a difference an education can make...huh?

I have made my point. I am done. Continue the ass whippings....lol.