B19 Flyer

[fischman]

I can't argue with that.

Cheers man.:beer:

 

[B19 Flyer]

Nothing you wrote about what I stated is true.

Sigh. I wish people would quit quoting B19 so those of us who have him on ignore don't have that obnoxious blue print jumping out at us all the time.

Hey 7777, are you starting to get the picture? According to B19 all us pilots are too stupid and lazy to be managers.

Never said that. What I have continually stated is if you want something done, stop complaining. That’s all you do.

And THAT'S the attitude most average workers are fighting at most companies.

You are so full of crap.


B19's attitude is why there is so much labor/management strife out there.


It’s not my attitude, it’s that of union members like you that want something for nothing and management like us trying to figure out how to pay for it and keep the company from going out of business.


It's not that the workers are greedy. Or that management is stingy. Simply that management at most companies doesn't recognize the worth of their workers.

Unions want high pay and benefits without having to work as hard as the rest of the employees in the company. You seem to forget that the “value” of anything is what somebody is willing to pay for it. That value of any company is based on the revenue stream against the cost of doing business. When the high cost of a CBA is forced on a company without an appropriate revenue stream, management is blamed for the failure by union members instead of the unreasonable union contract.


B19 believes because we're not managers that we aren't smart, don't have any good ideas, or are too blind to be able to see areas in the company that could be improved.

Never said that. What I have said is that if you aren’t happy with management, go be one yourself and quit complaining.

Never mind that there are many pilots with AS, BS's, BA's, MBA's, or even PHD's, out there flying planes. There are many pilots who even run their own businesses in addition to flying. B19 just sees the moniker 'pilot' and assumes none of us have the smarts, education, or ambition to do anything other than sit behind the controls and monitor the autopilot for hours on end.

Never said that. I have repeatedly watched the so called “educated” pilots on the board whine and complain about management without stepping up to the plate and trying to fix it. All they do is whine and complain. Don’t whine, do something about it. They would rather complain and whine.


He also assumes that because we've CHOSEN flying as our primary career means that we should be paid squat.

Never said that. I have repeatedly stated that pilots should be well paid, but it should happen in a manner that does not put the rest of the company at risk.

B19 appears to be one of those managers where if an employee provides an idea on how to improve the company, he will not bother considering it because it came from lowly labor. After all, a lowly laborer doesn't have the smarts to help things run smoother.

Never said that. Being smart is one thing. Having the courage to step up to the plate for the good of all and doing something about it is a whole different conversation about. They would rather whine and complain.

After all, if he did, he'd be management, right? The only way to improve a company is to become a manager. Don't bother denying it B19. You've said over and over ad nauseum that if we can run things so much better, why don't we move to management. That says to me that no ideas will be considered unless we're officially management.

Never said that. Ideas are one thing, but implementation is another all together. After spending many years at various levels of management, I’ve discovered that there are two types of pilots that step into management. Those that are whiners step in and discover it’s a lot tougher than that thought it was and get out of it. Then there are those that find it tougher yet a lot more rewarding when they see the big picture from the inside out. Those are the pilots that make the greatest managers of them all and line pilots grow to hate them also because they do things that line guys can’t see the benefit from.

7777, if you've read this far, now would be a good time to go back and read X-rated's post in the other thread (I think you know the one I'm talking about). B19 says we have very little value just because we're pilots.

Never said that. What I’ve clearly stated over and over is if you don’t like something, do something about it. Don’t go and unionize to be a bully, the union won’t fix “bad management”, what it will do is make a bad situation worse.

But ask yourself, who is the most valuable person in the company when the best laid business plan in the world depends on getting that turbine engine repaired overnight?

It’s not the pilot. It’s the mechanic, stores, and coordination of non-pilot personnel that the pilot CBA always ignores.

We're all working together. We all share equal responsibility for the outcome of the business. We are all valuable in our own way. B19 doesn't see it that way. Has nothing to do with unions.

That is not what the union mongers on this board continually state. The union mongers on this board continually state that only pilots are smart enough to run the airline and deserve to be paid as such. Many of the posters on this board dump on rank and file employees, NJW and brokeflyer being notorious for their statements about these workers. I have continually stated that each and every employee in the company holds equal value and a pilot CBA put all of the employees and company at risk because of the lopsided payroll and work rules issues that lean in one direction only.

You guys love to make up all kinds of lies about what I write but don’t have the courage to step up and do what is right for your company.


What I write is dead-on with 90% of management in any company, not just aviation. Get over it and accept the reality.

Most managers just get sick of dealing with those union employees that think that they are smarter than them but don’t ever step forward to prove it. Nothing is stopping them from doing it except it’s just easier to whine about it or get into a mob mentality and take it by force.

The thing that I find funniest about you union mongers is how much you complain about your attitude to management. You expect the world out of your company, yet you don’t want to put the effort into making it better. I’m not talking about what pilots do on the line either that’s a given. I know what happens on the line, the 16 hour days, greeting customers, hotel rooms in the middle of nowhere and trying to run interference on things that don't go right. I get that. I'm not talking about that.

But to watch you guys whine about how management runs things without trying to make it better yourselves is the biggest joke on these boards.

You yell to your union, demand high wages, generous work rules and benefits then whine when the revenue stream doesn’t match the impossible demands. Then, you say there is other “fat” in the company that can trimmed before your payroll is touched and when that “fat” is eliminated to pay for your outlandish CBA you complain because you are not being supported by management.

You can’t have it both ways.

All of you on this board that are pro-union are simply whiners. Maybe you go out and fly the line and do a great job. But when it comes to knowing how a company like an air carrier works with all the different rules, taxes and laws behind it happen, you are nothing more than a cog in wheel but are too egotistical to realize that your level of importance is identical to the fueler, mechanic or scheduler you dump on every day on these boards. And you wonder why you don’t get support from those that made different career choices than you.

I'll say it again. If you think that management is doing a terrible job managing your company, go walk a mile in their shoes. It won't take long before you too will be disgusted with the union you were so in love with before.

 

[wacoflyr]

Suffering from attention deficit this morning? Looking for some new way to get a rise? Go back to sleep. (yawn)

 

[FLYLOW22]

We don't need to make anything up B19. If we wait long enough, you change your story. You change your story faster than TX weather.

That being said, a lie today is the truth tomorrow. Add to that your casual attitude of "What is truth?" and PRESTO... You are perfect management material.

 

[wacoflyr]

Moonlight covers the land. Pilots sleep soundly in their hotel rooms, content with their work. Somewhere, a middle manager for a failing airline cries in his sleep, troubled by a conscience that won't let him rest. His wife kicks him, they go back to sleep, and all is quiet. Peace reigns once more.

 

[B19 Flyer]

Moonlight covers the land. Pilots sleep soundly in their hotel rooms, content with their work. Somewhere, a middle manager for a failing airline cries in his sleep, troubled by a conscience that won't let him rest. His wife kicks him, they go back to sleep, and all is quiet. Peace reigns once more.

That poor middle manager must work for an airline with a union. Proof of that is that the pilots are sleeping soundly. Union pilots have no conscience.

 

[B19 Flyer]

We don't need to make anything up B19. If we wait long enough, you change your story. You change your story faster than TX weather.

That being said, a lie today is the truth tomorrow. Add to that your casual attitude of "What is truth?" and PRESTO... You are perfect management material.

I just had to correct all of the non-factual information in the post. Nothing in the entire post reflected what I have written or my true opinions.

 

[FLYLOW22]

I just had to correct all of the non-factual information in the post. Nothing in the entire post reflected what I have written or my true opinions.

That's great. You are still an outspoken fool who enjoys getting rises out of people by writing outlandish opinions and drawing conclusions between points galaxies apart.

I hear there are openings at the Enquirer.

You'd do well writing about Yetti, Paris Hilton, Zsa Zsa and little green men.

 

[fischman]

hey! Hey! HEY!!!

Let's agree to leave Paris out of this. She is an innocent billionaire who... nevermind.imp:

 

[AceCrackshot]

Hi, Bob!

Remember my top ten list? I know you didn't like that.

Let Bygones be bygones?