B19 Flyer

[fischman]

Your drivel is 2004 19.

I'm close to ignoring you if you continue to repeatedly ignore in your posts what we have accomplished here as a company (management and pilots) together.

You cannot talk about the union here at NetJets without mentioning management in the same light. Positiveositive. Negative:Negative.

We're doing fine here.... Nut Sack.

You're wasting your time my friend. There is one thing B19 will never understand:

"The needs of the many outweight the needs of the few, or the one."

His heart of full of mistrust and anger, although he will deny it. That is the path to The Dark Side. Lies and deceit are his way now.





Are the analogies doing anything for you guys? I think they are mildly funny.

 

[B19 Flyer]

Defining the "needs of many"

You're wasting your time my friend. There is one thing B19 will never understand:

"The needs of the many outweight the needs of the few, or the one."

His heart of full of mistrust and anger, although he will deny it. That is the path to The Dark Side. Lies and deceit are his way now.


Are the analogies doing anything for you guys? I think they are mildly funny.

See fischman, here is where we disagree.

YOU feel that the needs of many are that of the union over that of managment.

I see the needs of the entire company, all the employees, the vendors that need the company to survive and the passengers/owners/stockholders outweighing the need of the union.

Union greed and selfishness astounds me.

 

[B19 Flyer]

There will be a MAJOR correction over the next year. It will be Congress passing the "Free Choice Act" which will allow employee groups to vote in a Union onto the property by simply sending in Union Cards, rather than have to hold a secret ballot election after 35% have sent in Cards.

This will indeed affect the Balance of Power between the Haves (Management) and the Have Nots (Pilots).

Get ready Bob19. Its coming. And I can't wait til it passes so I can rub it in your Scab face BOB!


Freedom is Not Free!

What a beautiful thing. When a company is profitable a company can grow and create jobs which is what this new president is pledging to do.

Unions feel a profitable company is creating a piece of the pie they are entitled to. Unions don't feel that a prospering company should create more jobs and a better way of life for many. Instead, they would prefer to have increased salary and benefits for fewer rather than fair wages and stable incomes for many.

This is why when furloughs happen at NJ later this year, the bottom of the seniority list will get hammered rather than NJASAP negotiating to keep as many jobs on the property as possible. Unions are not out to protect their brethern, they are out to protect their pocketbooks.

Union members call management greedy yet fail to look in the mirror at what they are doing to their own membership in true times of need.

And your reference to scab? Please refer to the first post on this thread by the moderator to clear that up and the request not to use that untrue reference, of either "Bob" or "Scab".

 

[B19 Flyer]

Your drivel is 2004 19.

I'm close to ignoring you if you continue to repeatedly ignore in your posts what we have accomplished here as a company (management and pilots) together.

You cannot talk about the union here at NetJets without mentioning management in the same light. Positiveositive. Negative:Negative.

We're doing fine here.... Nut Sack.

I've stated this over and over, if you want to stick your head in the sand and ignore what I've previously written that's fine.. but I'll state it again for your personal benefit.

Unions will work with management as long as the going is good (kind of like a teenager). As soon as the company objects, the union gets nasty and things fall apart. (read that as the rapid fall of ASAP programs at many carriers). As soon as the $$$ gets tight, watch that wonderful relationship you cite begin to fall apart, just like RS was talking about during negotiations. When the union got what they wanted they played nice. When the $$$ get tight, it won't be the same and all of you that are touting the great union relationship at NJ will be cussing management there also.

This isn't new, it's a cycle that exists wherever organizied labor sets their feet into. When it happens, don't whine about it. Accept it for what it is. You wanted a union for the good times... you better get ready for the destuctive behavior that union is going to do to you, the company and all that depend on it in the bad times.

And your reference to "nut sack" is appropriate because they hold what I and management have that most union members don't have. Union members would rather hide behind the skirt of a union bully rather than step into management and truly make a positive difference for all involved.

 

[fischman]

See fischman, here is where we disagree.

YOU feel that the needs of many are that of the union over that of managment. You're beginning to catch up. Good for you!!!​

I see the needs of the entire company, all the employees, the vendors that need the company to survive and the passengers/owners/stockholders outweighing the need of the union. There is nothing to keep ALL the employees in a company from unionizing and protecting themselves from managers like yourself. As a matter of fact, you might want to check your attitude. You're EXACTLY the type of manager that brings a union onto property.

Union greed and selfishness astounds me. Management greed and selfishness astounds me.

.....

 

[993_Pilot]

. . . Unions feel a profitable company is creating a piece of the pie they are entitled to. Unions don't feel that a prospering company should create more jobs and a better way of life for many. Instead, they would prefer to have increased salary and benefits for fewer rather than fair wages and stable incomes for many. . .

This is in contrast to management who all offer profit sharing when times are good ??? Give me a break. The few companies who do spread the wealth voluntarily, generally don't have unions. It is the greedy management teams that don't share the wealth and always treat their employees like crap that get the unions. You can talk about the faults of unions all day, but why can't you ever admit the truth about why companies get unions in the first place?

 

[FLYLOW22]

I've stated this over and over, if you want to stick your head in the sand and ignore what I've previously written that's fine.. but I'll state it again for your personal benefit.

Unions will work with management as long as the going is good (kind of like a teenager). As soon as the company objects, the union gets nasty and things fall apart. (read that as the rapid fall of ASAP programs at many carriers). As soon as the $$$ gets tight, watch that wonderful relationship you cite begin to fall apart, just like RS was talking about during negotiations. When the union got what they wanted they played nice. When the $$$ get tight, it won't be the same and all of you that are touting the great union relationship at NJ will be cussing management there also.

This isn't new, it's a cycle that exists wherever organizied labor sets their feet into. When it happens, don't whine about it. Accept it for what it is. You wanted a union for the good times... you better get ready for the destuctive behavior that union is going to do to you, the company and all that depend on it in the bad times.

And your reference to "nut sack" is appropriate because they hold what I and management have that most union members don't have. Union members would rather hide behind the skirt of a union bully rather than step into management and truly make a positive difference for all involved.

Alright guys. I've had my fill of B19. For the 1st time in history, I am ignoring someone.

Sorry. We're just going to have to agree to disagree B19.

The sun will come up tomorrow and I'm pretty sure that I'll see it.

Good luck to you Sir.

 

[Freedom]

Bob19....

My apologies Sir.

I did pledge to call you by the Nickname "Bob19" instead of your other nicknames, and slipped back into old habits.


I will correct that in the future should I choose to address you in the future.


Freedom is Not Free

 

[brokeflyer]

not true, management wanted a union. That action is a direct result of being butt boned. Truth.

Pay me what my job is worth and POOF!!!

no more union needed.

 

[gutshotdraw]

"The needs of the many outweight the needs of the few, or the one."

Fisch,

At the risk of sounding like I agree with your friend here (NOT), I always preferred another line from the same flick:

"As with all creatures, each according to his gifts."

Carry on.

 

[993_Pilot]

. . . Union greed and selfishness astounds me.

Management greed and selfishness astounds me!

If it wasn't for that, there would be no "union greed".

 

[Chewbacca]

This thread sounds like group of kids at preschool. GAFL!

 

[Freedom]

Unions only happen due to Failed Management

What a beautiful thing. When a company is profitable a company can grow and create jobs which is what this new president is pledging to do.

Unions feel a profitable company is creating a piece of the pie they are entitled to. Unions don't feel that a prospering company should create more jobs and a better way of life for many. Instead, they would prefer to have increased salary and benefits for fewer rather than fair wages and stable incomes for many.

This is why when furloughs happen at NJ later this year, the bottom of the seniority list will get hammered rather than NJASAP negotiating to keep as many jobs on the property as possible. Unions are not out to protect their brethern, they are out to protect their pocketbooks.

Union members call management greedy yet fail to look in the mirror at what they are doing to their own membership in true times of need.

And your reference to scab? Please refer to the first post on this thread by the moderator to clear that up and the request not to use that untrue reference, of either "Bob" or "Scab".

What you seem to want to ignor, is that many of us that helped to get the Union onto the Flight Options property, were A Teamers that wanted nothing to do with a Union, until we were placed under attack by Scheeringa and his Hired Hitmen.

Greedy Management who treat their employees with an utter lack of respect cause Unions to be voted upon their properties.

Treat employees with respect, and compensate them fairly, and I can assure you, a Union would never have a chance of being voted in.

I currently work at just such a place. We won't have a Union here if things continue along the way they are going, not because Management does not want one, but because our Pilots see no need for one.

Greedy Management is its own undoing. That lesson was learned at Flight Options. And now the price will be paid by the current management there, having to operate within the confines of a Pilot Contract.

A little less greed, and the Union would have never been voted in. You can thank Scheeringa for that. He single handedly turned the most Pro Business Pilot group in the Country, into one that voted in the Teamsters by a 67% margin. Now that's what I call poor management.


Freedom is Not Free

 

[Ultra Grump]

Fisch,

At the risk of sounding like I agree with your friend here (NOT), I always preferred another line from the same flick:

"As with all creatures, each according to his gifts."

Carry on.

From our friend J Mac at Flying magazine:

Left Seat
By J. Mac McClellan
A Hero Pilot, as Expected

US Airways Captain Chesley Sullenberger is universally being hailed as a hero for his successful ditching of an Airbus A320 in the Hudson River. And he should be. But Captain Sullenberger's performance is exactly what we should all have expected, and in fact is what the rules require.

You see, in air transport flying, whether it be in the airlines or business jets, or any large airplane that requires a type rating, there are no "B" or "C" pilots allowed. Everyone must meet the same high standard of performance, and then be retrained and rechecked routinely to be sure that level of proficiency is maintained.

The same is not true for pilots of small airplanes flying for their own personal or business reasons. For personal flying in lighter airplanes we want a safe and reasonable standard that makes it possible for people with the widest array of experience and aptitude to fly. But at the ATP level in large airplanes only the best will do. For a type rating, or recurrent training and checking, there is only one passing grade and that is proficient in each task. The only other grades are making progress toward proficiency, which means you cannot be pilot in command.

When you view airline flying this way it becomes immediately apparent why only a seniority system can work to allow pilots to advance in pay, scheduling, and from copilot to captain, and to larger airplanes. Since every pilot meets the same standard they are all equal in performance. For those who are no longer equal, they're grounded. So congratulations to Captain Sullenberger for doing exactly what the training and testing of all airline pilots requires. The system works.



Yes, I know, we're not an airline. But the same logic applies in this case.

 

[Hogprint]

Great link Grump.

Well said J Mac!

When you view airline flying this way it becomes immediately apparent why only a seniority system can work to allow pilots to advance in pay, scheduling, and from copilot to captain, and to larger airplanes. Since every pilot meets the same standard they are all equal in performance. For those who are no longer equal, they're grounded. So congratulations to Captain Sullenberger for doing exactly what the training and testing of all airline pilots requires. The system works.