B19 Flyer

[B19 Flyer]

Great protection of your union brotherhood.

The CBA allows for furloughs. Not concessions. I hope the pilots at NetJets have learned from the 121 carriers what happens when concessions are given. We lose our CBA, pilots get furloughed anyway, and management lines their pockets with gold.

IF NetJets comes to NJASAP and asks for concessions, I hope all the EBOARD does is laugh.

I didn't know that NJASAP had an MEC... Huh.:erm:

(We don't).

No, they haven't learned fischman.. unions never do and that's why the cycle is doomed to repeat itself.

You obviously have the opinion that others should not be concerned about what you make but what management makes is wrong. If you are payroll jealous, then you are in the wrong career, you should have become a doctor instead.

In your mind, just pay the contract and furlough those that are too low on the seniority list.

Great protection of your union brotherhood.

 

[gutshotdraw]

In a non-union company, when business is bad, what happens? People are usually let go. The difference in a union shop is that people are let go in reverse order of their service to the company AND they get to come back when things get better. More often than not, people let go from non-union companies during recessions NEVER get their job back. I'm no union cheer-leader and not a union member (for about another 1 year, 9 months, and a couple of days) but which scenario seems more fair?

 

[Pervis]

very true Gutshot. Here is another thought. One argument made by the anti-union crowd for non-union shops and a supposed advantage is to allow the company to elliminate the least productive employees when reductions are made, even when that means out of seniority order terminations. The reality is those decisions are made based upon politics, alliances, and other reasons totally unrelated to the individual's ability. To claim otherwise is either naive or deceiptful.

 

[fischman]

No, they haven't learned fischman.. unions never do and that's why the cycle is doomed to repeat itself.

You obviously have the opinion that others should not be concerned about what you make but what management makes is wrong. If you are payroll jealous, then you are in the wrong career, you should have become a doctor instead.

In your mind, just pay the contract and furlough those that are too low on the seniority list.

Great protection of your union brotherhood.

wrong again B19.

I am not concerned about the contracts that management personnel managed to sign with NetJets. I am concerned about the compliance of our CBA.

 

[B19 Flyer]

wrong again B19.

I am not concerned about the contracts that management personnel managed to sign with NetJets. I am concerned about the compliance of our CBA.

Exactly. You are concerned about the compliance of the CBA, not the the jobs of any of your union co-workers.

I have stated many times, the union beats on their chest and states that they are out to protect their union "brothers", yet will never once attempt to save the job of anybody below them on the seniority list.

 

[brokeflyer]

we're a diffrent kinda union.

 

[B19 Flyer]

we're a diffrent kinda union.

Tell me...

When the cuts happen, how will your very special union handle them?

Cut jobs or cut payroll? There is no in-between.

 

[brokeflyer]

in this crappy economy, having a union don't matter. If they furlough they will furlough. Having a union on property has nothing to do with it. You're just upset because we make more money than you think we're worth.

I'd be all for a pay-cut to save the company, provided it was a COMPANY WIDE cut. Not just the flight crews taking a cut. We do most of the work and have the most responsiblity, therefore we shouldn't be targeted.

And before you come back with some dumbass post, be advised, I dont really care what you're talking about, Im just posting stuff cause it's funny watching you get all worked about it.

If you would respect other people's views then it probly wouldnt be like that.

 

[B19 Flyer]

in this crappy economy, having a union don't matter. If they furlough they will furlough. Having a union on property has nothing to do with it. You're just upset because we make more money than you think we're worth.

I'd be all for a pay-cut to save the company, provided it was a COMPANY WIDE cut. Not just the flight crews taking a cut. We do most of the work and have the most responsiblity, therefore we shouldn't be targeted.

And before you come back with some dumbass post, be advised, I dont really care what you're talking about, Im just posting stuff cause it's funny watching you get all worked about it.

If you would respect other people's views then it probly wouldnt be like that.

I never said that. I don't care what somebody makes as long as it doesn't jeapardize the rest of the company which is what unions and a CBA does.

Please don't put words in my mouth.

 

[brokeflyer]

for once I think we agree, unions can do that. Glad we wern't greedy, otherwise I think the contract would sink us. What I hate about unions is the guy sweeping the floor makes $30/hr.....everyone wants to be rich. That's a problem. We shouldnt need a union as pilots that's for sure.

Our salaries don't even rank on the debt chart here. You should see what we spend on software and office supplies.

Calm down though, im just yanking your chain a bit.

 

[B19 Flyer]

It's not about low wages...

for once I think we agree, unions can do that. Glad we wern't greedy, otherwise I think the contract would sink us. What I hate about unions is the guy sweeping the floor makes $30/hr.....everyone wants to be rich. That's a problem. We shouldnt need a union as pilots that's for sure.

Our salaries don't even rank on the debt chart here. You should see what we spend on software and office supplies.

Calm down though, im just yanking your chain a bit.

I know you are, but there is this huge misconception that I'm about low wages and that could not be further from the truth.

I want everybody to get paid what they are worth and if I thought for even a second a union would roll back wages in a CBA to match the economy to save jobs I wouldn't be so hard on the union product.

It doesn't work that way though. Unions expect the company to pay "good times" wages during "bad times", and that is where I part company with the union way. I'm not going to even get into limiting scope clauses or work rules that reward pilots for not working. All of these items cost families jobs and threaten the company.

I'm about the company being stable and staying in existence. All of the working employees in the company should be able to remain gainfully employed. It's hard enough running any company, but with a CBA looming as the governing document to how a company is run, the odds are against success and stability.

You mentioned the $30/hr floor sweeper. One of the unknown facts about Lorenzo at Eastern was he offered a huge paid training program to the ramp workers that were making A & P wages under the contract to train as mechanics so they could hire and pay ramp workers appropriate wages. The union refused stating there wasn't a need for them to train because they were already making those wages. A year later they were all unemployed. There are many things that Lorenzo did that will never become public, but he will always be tagged for what happened, not the mechanic's union.

 

[PCL_128]

Did you really just try to make Lorenzo look like a good guy? Seriously? If you had any credibility before (you didn't), then you just lost all of it with that post.

 

[wacoflyr]

Thread get too close to the bottom again, B19? That's it! Never give up!

Wacoflyr

 

[B19 Flyer]

Did you really just try to make Lorenzo look like a good guy? Seriously? If you had any credibility before (you didn't), then you just lost all of it with that post.

Lorenzo was a son of a b*tch, but he saved more jobs than the union did. If not for Lorenzo, all the jobs at CAL and People's Express (not to mention all the small carriers that were bought up) would have been lost in addition to those at Eastern. He kept Eastern alive a lot longer than it would have been had it continued down that path it was going.

As there is almost nothing written on what Lorenzo did behind the scenes, you will never be able to learn the true story. I've worked with some of his former front line managers, and believe me.. the union asked for and got exactly what they deserved. Those that lost their jobs have the union to blame for those losses, not Frank. All Frank was trying to do was keep the company alive.

There are lots of pilots with serious incomes still flying today that have Frank to thank for saving those companies.

 

[B19 Flyer]

Thread get too close to the bottom again, B19? That's it! Never give up!

Wacoflyr

You need a life.. Great conspiricy, but wrong. I do like the idea though.