AWA/USAir seniority integration??

[TheDonger]

No staplers will happen. If its even suggested you're looking at WWIII. I do agree with the fences. Sorry, but the investors are in the driver's seat on this one. US Airways has a good track record on employee merger integration. This will never be an AA/TWA fiasco. Nobody on either property will allow it; you can take that to the bank. Don't forget, a lot of ALPA arbitration precedents were set with the PSA/Piedmont/USAir/Trump Shuttle mergers. If the AWA pilots were smart and would THINK for a moment they are the ones that will get a windfall. For the most part, most of the US Airways pilot group will be retired in 10 years. Yes, you'll be flying those A350's to Europe or where ever. FWIW, it's going to take years to integrate. In the next two years, 800 US Airways pilots are scheduled to retire...those are the scheduled ones. It will probably end up being over 1000 pilots due to those leaving, medicals, ect. US Airways is losing (retirements) on average (according to VP Flight Ops) 1.2 pilots PER DAY!

 

[NewBlue]

date of hire at first alpa airline....national list for merger/job change purposes

Why not date of Commercial license? That is when (theoretically) you became a professional pilot.

 

[Traderd]

Why not date of Commercial license? That is when (theoretically) you became a professional pilot.

Better yet - DOB.

 

[B6Driver]

MickeySlapnutz,
It's comments like yours that make me happy I'm furloughed from that angry mob of employees over at AA. What comes around goes around. Every Qtr. brings your group closer to the edge.
Your view will change in the future but all will remember how you acted.

 

[aa73]

B6 Driver,

Keep telling yourself how "screwed" you got by AA.... when you were all jumping for joy the day the merger was announced (Yes! A savior!)... Then you cried because you didn;t get DOH... and I've got schmucks here telling me I stole their or their father's seniority! Up yours. Like you said, what goes around comes around. We don't want you back either, so go drink your Blue koolaid and off with you.

TWAdude, I'm dissapointed. You always had great informative posts, and now you're spewing your infamous "ALPA merger policy" (which doesn't even exist anymore) and Neutral arbitration... Well, thanks to Neutral arbitrtation, a well known group of guys called Air Wisconsin got screwed in a merger involving Mississipi Valley AIrlines, which resulted in something like 10 year Air Willy guys flying copilot for 3 year Mississipi Valley captains.

So SCREW neutral arbitration. Half the time they mess it all up.

As I said in my post, go take it up with ALPA ,they're the ones that wouldn't stand up to the APA and challenge them on what they deemed a fair first offer (which your dumbass MEC chairman Bob Pastore basically refused.) I hope you guys win millions from them.

Hey, I'm not one to call something like this fair or unfair, but when you look at the reaction of your pilot group when the merger was announced, and then screaming foul when the integration came down and you didn't get DOH, well, there's a wee bit of an odor in the air. Sorry, but that's the way it is in every merger - there's always a group from both sides that feels they got screwed.

And yes, there will be a group from both sides at AWA/USAir who will get screwed, and another group from both that will benefit. Just like AA/TWA. Welcome to merger mania.

73

 

[MickeySlapnutz]

MickeySlapnutz,
It's comments like yours that make me happy I'm furloughed from that angry mob of employees over at AA.

Great...its a win win then.

 

[MickeySlapnutz]

No staplers will happen. If its even suggested you're looking at WWIII. I do agree with the fences. Sorry, but the investors are in the driver's seat on this one.

Its not only being suggested, its more than likely a reality. So let the bombs fall.....only problem is your bombs are all duds. I mean what can you really do about it? If you think the investors wake up in the morning and care one wit about your seniority...than God bless. Go ask the TWA investors how much they fought for the TWA pilots.

Word of advice to you guys at AWA....vote out ALPA now and vote in your own in house union such as APA or what ever you want to call it,if you wish to put an end to this ALPA-ALPA merger policy bullstien. Not that it will matter too much...it will just put an end to the argument much more quickly. I know, I know....TWAdude and a bunch of other guys who are very happy to be furloughed from the angry AA guys will wet their pants over such an idea, but its your job at stake.

Love and kisses,
Mickey

 

[BeCareful!]

Comparisons between TWA/AA and AWA/US aren't valid. Not even close, considering the size of the carriers and the relative financial health at the time of announcement.

US is the airline everyone loves to hate, but the truth is that GE, Airbus, RSA, and a whole bunch of others see value in the franchise, the routes, everything. U's operating losses last quarter pale in comparison to Delta's, United's, and Northwest's. Profits could be just around the corner for U, but for these others, probably not.

The group just aquired over 1 billion $$ in RJ's and Mainline Replacement Jets......airlines on their "death beds" aren't typically capable of that.

I know a bunch of AWA guys think that by trash talking on the Internet they'll help themselves to a sweet A330 spot, flying three or four Trans Atlantic sorties a month, but it just ain't gonna happen. And why should it? Are the AWA pilots themselves responsible for their carrier's meager survival at this point? Certainly not any more than the US Air pilots are responsible for saving their airline! ($8 Billion investment!)

Ms. Slapnutz, your trash ain't even worth commenting on

And, I'm a nicer person than you are

 

[MickeySlapnutz]

The group just aquired over 1 billion $$ in RJ's and Mainline Replacement Jets......airlines on their "death beds" aren't typically capable of that.

[size=+2]TWA To Acquire 20 Boeing 757 Jetliners[/size]

ST. LOUIS, Feb. 12, 1996 -- Trans World Airlines, Inc. (AMEX: TWA) today announced it will acquire 20 new Boeing 757-200 aircraft, 10 to be purchased and 10 to be leased, and will have the ability to secure options for up to 20 additional 757 twinjets, The Boeing Company has confirmed. All the aircraft will be powered by Pratt & Whitney PW 2037 engines.

The first new aircraft delivery is scheduled for July 1996 with two additional deliveries in 1996. The new planes to be delivered in 1996 and 1997 will replace fourteen L-1011 jets currently operated by TWA. The remaining 757s will replace smaller standard-body aircraft that TWA plans to retire when their leases terminate. TWA announced it has secured financing for all aircraft it has ordered. There will be twelve 757 deliveries in 1997, two deliveries in 1998 and three deliveries in 1999.

Guess again.

 

[321 busdriver]

Now that's funny!

Better yet - DOB.

 

[321 busdriver]

Mickey, as BeCareful said, give it a rest. You're sounding more like an uninformed yahoo with every new post!

Comparisons between TWA/AA and AWA/US aren't valid. Not even close, considering the size of the carriers and the relative financial health at the time of announcement.

US is the airline everyone loves to hate, but the truth is that GE, Airbus, RSA, and a whole bunch of others see value in the franchise, the routes, everything. U's operating losses last quarter pale in comparison to Delta's, United's, and Northwest's. Profits could be just around the corner for U, but for these others, probably not.

The group just aquired over 1 billion $$ in RJ's and Mainline Replacement Jets......airlines on their "death beds" aren't typically capable of that.

I know a bunch of AWA guys think that by trash talking on the Internet they'll help themselves to a sweet A330 spot, flying three or four Trans Atlantic sorties a month, but it just ain't gonna happen. And why should it? Are the AWA pilots themselves responsible for their carrier's meager survival at this point? Certainly not any more than the US Air pilots are responsible for saving their airline! ($8 Billion investment!)

Ms. Slapnutz, your trash ain't even worth commenting on

And, I'm a nicer person than you are

 

[MickeySlapnutz]

"MOUNT LAUREL, N.J. (AP) — Before American bought TWA in 2001, the pilots union agreed to allow their employer to go into bankruptcy and waive a contract provision that would have required an arbiter to oversee the integration of the seniority list for the two companies.

The pilots union supported the sale because at the time it happened, it looked like TWA was financially doomed." "A group of the former pilots is asking a federal judge to order the airline to rehire more than 1,500 of them."

Take note AWA guys.....Any comments TWAdude?

 

[TWA Dude]

TWAdude, I'm dissapointed. You always had great informative posts, and now you're spewing your infamous "ALPA merger policy" (which doesn't even exist anymore) and Neutral arbitration...

Life is full of disappointment. Get used to it. And ALPA merger policy is alive and well and in writing.

So SCREW neutral arbitration. Half the time they mess it all up.

Perhaps I’m not making myself clear. (Actually, I have, numerous times, but getting through to you guys is taking longer than knocking down the Berlin Wall.) Forget the end result for a moment and consider what constitutes a fair process for pilot integration talks. ALPA sets up a framework for equality-based talks and provides for a solution when no agreement is reached. When the unions differ (or when external powers meddle) you have conflicting merger policies (TWA/AA) and that gets resolved by the weaker carrier losing its rights and the dominant carrier gets carte blanche to do whatever the devil it pleases. Now what I can’t for the life of me understand is why a few of you are pressing for the latter scenario. I don’t want to lose my job any more than the next guy but it seems a few of you (AA guys, hmmm) are perfectly happy to gain at the expense of others. I’m not.


Now, as far pilots getting screwed by arbitration I’d much rather be screwed that way than by fellow pilots. At least the arbitrator doesn’t stand to gain from it.

 

[TWA Dude]

Take note AWA guys.....Any comments TWAdude?

Sure. Those statements in italics are factually correct but misleading because of a significant detail left out. (Gee, I wonder who the reporter consulted?) I'm repeating this for the umpteenth time because historical revisionism is alive and well: the TWA MEC waived our successorship clauses under threat of abrogation of our whole contract by the judge. Carty would've gotten his purchase regardless. It is revisionist (not to mention self-serving) to say we did it to help the purchase go through. It's certainly true that we wished for AA to win the auction but we had no desire to lose our CBA.

Regardless the lesson is clear: never willingly give up the right to arbitration.

And you know what I find sadly ironic here? This stupid back-and-forth isn't between an AWA pilot and a US pilot. It's an AA pilot and a who-knows-where Mickey who basically are arguing for AWA to treat US like AA did TWA. Very sad indeed!

 

[MickeySlapnutz]

Profits could be just around the corner for U, but for these others, probably not.

"The new management team at TWA has done an exceptional job positioning the airline for long-term growth," said Robert Wolfe, president of Pratt & Whitney's Large Commercial Engine unit.

"We're encouraged by TWA's financial restructuring and improved financial performance," said Ron Woodard, president of Boeing Commercial Airplane Group

ILFC President and Chief Executive Officer Steven F. Udvar- Hazy said, "TWA's decision to lease 10 new Boeing 757s from ILFC and to enter into a commitment with Boeing for additional 757s is a reflection of the dynamic and positive growth of the airline."

You sound like these guys......