AWA/USAir seniority integration??

[SOVT]

ALPA national shows us as active AAA pilots. There is a new seniority list that will be published any day now that reflects that status. This was in the works months ago, long before there were any merger discussions. As you may know, the original intent was for MDA to have it's own certificate, that did not happen. We operate under the mainline certificate.

This has caused issues, some of which are still being addressed. The original training program had to be rewritten to match mainline's, The Check Airman go thru the mainline training program, management functions for the most part have been added to mainline CPs offices, Express hat devices and wings were recalled and mainline hardware issued.....

 

[JetMonkey]

Just a question from a very nice person.

If your going around slappin nutz I don't think that's very nice.

 

[TheDonger]

Question: Will any former TWA pilots working for AWA demand that USAir pilots get DOH on the intergration? I'll bet not. I would imagine that they will "see the light" and change their tune. Just a question from a very nice person.

I know of a half-dozen former US Airways pilots with over 16 years senority (one had 20 years) that left US Airways to go work for America West in the past year! How do you think they're feeling if this merger occurs? If it were me; I'd be completely distraught. Then again, that's the airline biz, it's a gamble. Good luck to all.

 

[TWA Dude]

Question: Will any former TWA pilots working for AWA demand that USAir pilots get DOH on the intergration? I'll bet not. I would imagine that they will "see the light" and change their tune. Just a question from a very nice person.

You obviously have no idea how merger talks or any negotiations are conducted. I'm not going to demand any specific seniority for anybody. What I shall demand is a fair process which is what we at TWA were denied. The absolute last thing I would want to do to anybody else is what the APA did to us. This is my revenge and my proof of their misdeed: I shall NOT follow in their footsteps! The cycle of pilots stomping on the backs of others can be stopped. Of course I'm just one person and I'm not in any position of influence so I can't predict how anything is going to turn out. But if this monstrosity comes to pass and years from now some mean-sprited punk like you comes along with drivel about how I screwed some other pilot group I will honestly say I was against it. If our merger talks end up in binding arbitration than that is a fair process in my book come what may.

 

[PHXFLYR]

TWADude;


I wish I could have the opportunity to meet you some day. I would like to buy you a beer. That's pretty much how I feel about it ,too should this merger come to pass.

PHXFLYR

 

[Carl S.]

Just like Slap nuts said, when the ink dries, you will not find one Usairways pilot that will fess up that they were or are at deaths door and will want DOH or better.

 

[Focus]

I can see it now. TWA DUDE and PHXFLYR CRYING in their BEER.

TWADUDE: well PHXFLYR, at least we did the fair thing...I just didnt think that would mean me loosing my job..Heck Im back on the street.

PHXFLYR: No worrys Mate, next rounds on me. Ah CHIT, come to think of it I cant afford another round on my new FO PAY.

Sorry Guys, I couldn't resist....You guys are really making me laugh.

 

[TWA Dude]

Focus: you're absolutely right. I'm only 23 years old, AWA is my first airline, I've never been through a merger, I've never been furloughed, I'm completely naiive, and I have absolutely no idea what could happen to my job. Thanks for waking me up. Oh, and my opinion stands. Laugh all you like -- it says a lot about you.

 

[typhoonpilot]

One word, " Fences ". Big and long lasting ones. That will keep things from getting too lopsided, one way or the other. There is no way an America West pilot should be allowed to bid Captain on the A330 for many years. On the other hand there is no way a ( currently very junior 18 year ) USAirways F.O. should be allowed to bid Captain immediately as a result of a seniority integration.

The U MEC had a group look very deeply into past mergers to come up with a possible solution for the proposed UAL/U merger. They have an extensive body of precedent to fall back on and there is certainly a solution that will mitigate any unfair windfalls.

Take myself for example. I'm currently furloughed ( and really have no intention of ever going back ), but if U survived and I was to go back I would retire in the top 10 on the seniority list. I would have extremely good senioirty for my last 7 years. To staple me on the bottom of the America West seniority list such that I would never see the left seat would be patently unfair. It would also be patently unfair for me to be recalled and upgrade anytime within the next 8 years.

Fences are the answer. Most present U pilots are over the age of 45. A 15 year fence would be very reasonable and would mitigate the effects of a date-of-hire seniority integration. Having a clause like you always keep your America West relative seniority when bidding for former America West bases and you always keep your former USAirways seniority when bidding for the Airbus 330 ( or it's replacement, i.e PHL Int'l flying ) would be fair.

Ducking for cover,


TP

 

[aa73]

You obviously have no idea how merger talks or any negotiations are conducted. I'm not going to demand any specific seniority for anybody. What I shall demand is a fair process which is what we at TWA were denied. The absolute last thing I would want to do to anybody else is what the APA did to us. This is my revenge and my proof of their misdeed: I shall NOT follow in their footsteps! The cycle of pilots stomping on the backs of others can be stopped. Of course I'm just one person and I'm not in any position of influence so I can't predict how anything is going to turn out. But if this monstrosity comes to pass and years from now some mean-sprited punk like you comes along with drivel about how I screwed some other pilot group I will honestly say I was against it. If our merger talks end up in binding arbitration than that is a fair process in my book come what may.

Sorry TWAdude but I'm gonna have to call you on that one. While I absolutely disagree with a lot of the APA's actions during the merger, it was your own MEC and your own union that ensured you were denied a "fair process." All APA did was put forth a proposal, only to have your own Bob Pastore refuse to vote on it, and walk out of a meeting... Then APA put forth a second proposal, which is the current one, and it was passed without ALPA even batting an eyelid.

SO I guess the argument can be made that... APA put forth a proposal that was deemed "UNFAIR" by the majority of the TWA membership... and then your own MEC and union just stood by and refused to fight for anything better. Sounds like a lawsuit against ALPA would actually hold water.

73