AWA/USAir seniority integration??

[YellowLab]

I don't have a dog in this fight but I have a couple of questions that stem back from the United/USAir "merger".

I seem to remember the ALPA bylaws being a DOH integration. I seem to remember that being said alot while I was at United during the USAir/United talks. I also remember the word fences being thrown around quite a bit. Prior to 9/11 I already new that I would be furloughed if the merger went through.

Won't the AWA/U merger be a DOH integration with fences, straight from the ALPA bylaws being that both carriers are ALPA?

Can someone make this clear for me?

As far as TWA/AA goes shouldn't you guys let it go and move forward with your lives? It's the same as some of these Emery guys still thinking there will be another Emery one day, or me thinking that United is going to all of the sudden be a mega carrier again. The past is the past and we all got screwed. Unfortunately we are all too dumb to leave the industry.

 

[Cactus73]

I don't have a dog in this fight but I have a couple of questions that stem back from the United/USAir "merger".

I seem to remember the ALPA bylaws being a DOH integration. I seem to remember that being said alot while I was at United during the USAir/United talks. I also remember the word fences being thrown around quite a bit. Prior to 9/11 I already new that I would be furloughed if the merger went through.

Won't the AWA/U merger be a DOH integration with fences, straight from the ALPA bylaws being that both carriers are ALPA?

Can someone make this clear for me?

As far as TWA/AA goes shouldn't you guys let it go and move forward with your lives? It's the same as some of these Emery guys still thinking there will be another Emery one day, or me thinking that United is going to all of the sudden be a mega carrier again. The past is the past and we all got screwed. Unfortunately we are all too dumb to leave the industry.

YellowLab,

ALPA merger policy is NOT doh. It is amazing how this is getting thrown around by supposed experts such as Michael Boyd and being reported by most media outlets.

The AFA is DOH, ALPA is NOT.

There are a set of criteria that consider such factors as career expectations, avoiding windfalls, etc...

It also keeps the integration a separate process that eventually ends in binding arbitration if the two lists cannot be merged within a certain time frame.

If I get time, I'll post some if it later.

I think the biggest misconception is that the AWA guys are automatically screwed because of the seniority of the USAir guys.

 

[xanderman]

I don't have a dog in this fight but I have a couple of questions that stem back from the United/USAir "merger".

I seem to remember the ALPA bylaws being a DOH integration. I seem to remember that being said alot while I was at United during the USAir/United talks. I also remember the word fences being thrown around quite a bit. Prior to 9/11 I already new that I would be furloughed if the merger went through.

Won't the AWA/U merger be a DOH integration with fences, straight from the ALPA bylaws being that both carriers are ALPA?

Can someone make this clear for me?

As far as TWA/AA goes shouldn't you guys let it go and move forward with your lives? It's the same as some of these Emery guys still thinking there will be another Emery one day, or me thinking that United is going to all of the sudden be a mega carrier again. The past is the past and we all got screwed. Unfortunately we are all too dumb to leave the industry.

I believe someone has already pointed out that ALPA no longer states DOH in the integration policy... Period. Could we all maybe spread the word on that one so we can move on...

Regardless it will end up in the arbitrators hands anyhow.

 

[Cactus73]

This is from Section 45 of the ALPA merger policy.


5. The merger representatives shall carefully weigh all the equities inherent in their merger situation. In joint session, the merger representatives should attempt to match equities to various methods of integration until a fair and equitable agreement is reached, keeping in mind the following goals, in no particular order:
a. Preserve jobs.
b. Avoid windfalls to either group at the expense of the other.
c. Maintain or improve pre-merger pay and standard of living.
d. Maintain or improve pre-merger pilot status.
e. Minimize detrimental changes to career expectations.
6. The merger representatives shall report to the President, upon request, on their progress once negotiations begin. If, at any time after receiving the first report, in the opinion of the President, satisfactory progress is not being made, he may unilaterally intervene and invoke arbitration.

 

[sonny320]

FYI: Whatever it's worth...the amount of UsAirways pilots to retire in the next 10 years (2015) is about 2700, yes... two-thousand and seven-hundred!!!! More than half of the active pilots.

The annual average number of retirements between 2005-2010 is about 215/year. Between 2010-2015 it increases to about 300/year. This again are pilots reaching the age 60 (hopefully the age won't change). This doesn't count the number of early retirements, resignations, medicals etc. So the number will probably be much higher.

Maybe after sharing this information it will, hopefully, lessen the blow of pilot integration and career expectations.

Wishing good luck to everyone.

 

[TWA Dude]

As far as TWA/AA goes shouldn't you guys let it go and move forward with your lives?

Anger and bitterness can be let go. Despite what you might think from reading my posts I harbor no anger or bitterness about the integration but I do certainly get riled up by revisionist historians. The lessons of TWA/AA, however, cannot be let go because all past mergers are scrutinized during new mergers. It's important to try to avoid past mistakes. That's why it gets brought up here again and again: because it has to.

 

[MickeySlapnutz]

Are you for real? Go ahead and "call me" on it! The Green Book basically says anybody AA buys gets integrated the way the APA says it does. Our CBA said Allegheny-Mohawk. AA told us our contract had to change: do it on your own or we'll have the judge do it for you. The judge said he couldn't change just part of a CBA so his only option would be to abrogate the whole thing. Our MEC changed our contract under duress and you have the nerve to blame the victim?I still can't get a satisfactory answer to that whole debacle so suffice it to say there was a lack of effective communication between all involved parties.DUH! Why do you think we're suing ALPA?What in the sam hill are you talking about? The APA imposed Supp CC on TWA without our agreement because none was required. Who are you to judge that as fair?Dude, what color is the sky in your world? Exactly what constitutes "fighting" in your book beyond going to court? Our MEC had ZERO leverage and ALPA National sold us out. Poor us, I know, and to the victors go the spoils, but that just isn't enough for the likes of you.It's in the discovery phase right now. Depositions begin this summer. Just peruse C&R for the latest.

1:The TWA MEC changed the contract under duress
2:Still can't get a satisfactory answer to the debacle
3:A lack of effective communication
4:We a suing ALPA
5:Our MEC had ZERO leverage
6:ALPA National sold us out
7:That just isn't enough for the likes of you
8:Depositions begin this summer
9:The strawberries...The strawberries.....!!!


He only want's a fair process. It looks to me as if there is no process on earth that would satsify.

 

[TWA Dude]

He only want's a fair process. It looks to me as if there is no process on earth that would satsify.

I realize that reading comprehension isn't one of your stronger suits so I'll type real big for you. (How many times must I repeat myself for the likes of you to get it?) ALPA MERGER POLICY IS A FAIR PROCESS: IF THE SIDES CAN'T COME TO AN AGREEMENT IT ENDS UP IN BINDING ARBITRATION.

 

[YellowLab]

Hey guys,

Thanks for the education, it's been awhile since I've had the ummmm..... privelage of being an ALPA member. I truly hope everyone comes out ok but somebody is gonna get screwed and it's a shame. Best of luck to all of you and thanks for the education.

 

[Boeing747Driver]

FYI: Whatever it's worth...the amount of UsAirways pilots to retire in the next 10 years (2015) is about 2700, yes... two-thousand and seven-hundred!!!! More than half of the active pilots.

They only have 3000 active pilots and 1500 furloughed.