Awa Merger

[Cactus73]

Things that make you go Hmmm

TP

TP,

Doesn't make anyone go Hmmm. It was one pilot on the 757 that was here only a few months. He was a IAH commuter. Lived there and was from there.

He also came from XJT.


There isn't some mass exodus from here. It was one guy on the bottom of the list.

 

[BeCareful!]

There isn't some mass exodus from here. It was one guy on the bottom of the list.

I don't doubt it. With the potential windfall coming AWA's way, I would think most people would hold still......especially if they commute from parts east.

 

[Fly-n-hi]

Sorry, that won't work. It gives super seniority to all America West pilots after 10 years.

Almost all the active USAir pilots will be gone in ten years. In this scenario the AWA pilots get roughly 220 more aircraft worth of growth in ten years leaving the furloughed USAirways pilots ( many with 15 years of service ) out in the cold. Not fair and shouldn't happen this way. Please try again and stop thinking selfishly.

There is a workable solution and it involves fences. That is the best way to go for both groups.

TP

Sorry, It will work. It would work perfectly fine. What you meant to say is that you don't like it. That's ok. Although I would think that you would be happy just having a job down the road.

Look at it this way...right now your career expectation is to be recalled at the bottom of a seniority list. With my proposal you will be recalled at the bottom of a seniority list.

Anyways, if you're on the street right now you don't have much of a say in it.

 

[Cactus73]

I don't doubt it. With the potential windfall coming AWA's way, I would think most people would hold still......especially if they commute from parts east.

I seriously doubt AWA pilots are going to get a windfall. Almost all of us just want to keep our PHX/LAS base and current seats. There should be fences and if someone wants to head east in a few years they should have to wait for a vacancy and then go where their seniority can take them.

What is the precedent for furloughed pilots returning and jumping seniority ahead of active pilots? Has it happened in the past? I'm asking because I don't know. What type of fence and how long would it need to be in effect?

Based on statements from our CEO's Parker and Lakefield, I think you are dreaming if you think this is going to happen.

I personally think you should have permanent recall rights. With 1900 furloughed, you are going to need a 10-15 year fence. Do you think the company is going to agree to such a long fence? It cost a lot of money to do this.

You still haven't answered my question about the furloughed AAA guys working here at AWA. It's a sizable number.

 

[jon coqtoestone]

There is a workable solution and it involves fences. That is the best way to go for both groups.

TP

I couldn't agree more with the fence idea. I, personally, would like to see a good old fashioned block wall that extends at least 25 years (with a provision to extend it further after age-60 goes bye-bye). [Thought ya'all could use a little levity . . .]

Cheers!

 

[321 busdriver]

No, that won't work. What about us 20 year guys who aren't furloughed? It would absolutely give AWA super seniorty. If your idea of "fair" is to put a 20 year F/O at the 70% mark at U the same relative position at the combined airline, then you need to rethink your position. I am fairly sure that an arbitrator will look at some sort of fence agreement long before your "scenerio" ever comes to pass.

Sorry, It will work. It would work perfectly fine. What you meant to say is that you don't like it. That's ok. Although I would think that you would be happy just having a job down the road.

Look at it this way...right now your career expectation is to be recalled at the bottom of a seniority list. With my proposal you will be recalled at the bottom of a seniority list.

Anyways, if you're on the street right now you don't have much of a say in it.

 

[PHXFLYR]

Hey Kids<


HERE'S an idea!!! Why don't we all just shut our yaps and let the 2 Merger Comittees sit down and see what they can come up with, OK? He11, a PID hasn't even been set yet.


PHXFLYR

 

[PHXFLYR]

.....

 

[Green]

321 Busdriver,

I don't see what isn't fair about combing the active pilots using relative seniority. You work for a stagnant airline with little or no movement. You chose to stay at an airline where you are in the bottom 30%, so after a merger why should you leap ahead of the bottom third of AWA? We are a financially stronger airline offering you a lifeline and yet you think you should be senior to all of our FO's who have been here under 9 years?

 

[Doug Parker]

Green,

I'd vote to staple AAA to the bottom

Now that is fair !

 

[BeCareful!]

You still haven't answered my question about the furloughed AAA guys working here at AWA. It's a sizable number.

Furloughed AAA guys now working at AWA are.......um.......AWA guys. I assume they resigned their U seniority. Right?

If not, then I suppose they can exercise whatever rights that might get them. Like you and everyone else, I figure that equals about ZERO.

When I was hired at U, there were AWA guys bailing and starting over at US, because things looked much better here in 1999. Of course, all that's out the window now and you guys rightfully should get everything and anything you want. Afterall, your now at that fanancially vibrant, super west coast powerehouse, and you deseve weekends off and quick upgrades.

Happy windfall!

 

[Fly-n-hi]

No, that won't work. What about us 20 year guys who aren't furloughed? It would absolutely give AWA super seniorty. If your idea of "fair" is to put a 20 year F/O at the 70% mark at U the same relative position at the combined airline, then you need to rethink your position. I am fairly sure that an arbitrator will look at some sort of fence agreement long before your "scenerio" ever comes to pass.

Oh trust me, it will work. Like I said. You just don't like it.

What about you 20 year guys? So you've been there 20 years. Great. 20 years at U.S. Airways isn't worth a bag of crap right now. If your 20 years is so wonderful then why are you a junior FO?

I don't care how long you've been there. I just care where you sit on the seniority list. If you are in the bottom 10% of you active list then you should be in the bottom 10% of the newly combined list.

Why you think that your 20 years entitles you to automatically be senior to me baffles me. Actually it doesn't baffle me. I can see that its just pure greed.

As far as the Arbitrator is concerned, yeah, he might go for the fence idea, as long as no one tells him that your own CEO, Lakefield, said that U.S. Airways was finished without this merger. Yes...he said that.

 

[321 busdriver]

Did you read the entire post? I doubt it. If you had, you would have read that I think that a fence agreement would be fair to both airlines. NEVER did I say that I should move ahead of some 9 year AWA person. And as far as throwing us a lifeline... you either have a short memory or career or have not been with AWA long enough to know their history with reguards to their dealings with bankruptcy. Relative position is no more fair than date of hire. And to PHXFlyer... sounds good to me.

321 Busdriver,

I don't see what isn't fair about combing the active pilots using relative seniority. You work for a stagnant airline with little or no movement. You chose to stay at an airline where you are in the bottom 30%, so after a merger why should you leap ahead of the bottom third of AWA? We are a financially stronger airline offering you a lifeline and yet you think you should be senior to all of our FO's who have been here under 9 years?

 

[321 busdriver]

Will you please point out to me where I said that I should move ahead of you on the seniorty list. Again, did I not say that a fence agreement is the only fair way to both parties.. A bag of crap?... Really.. You must not have alot of confidence in your CEO then. And I never said that my 20 years is wonderful..anything but. As far as being greedy goes...Please. If this thing ever comes to pass, we can compare notes and see which way the ( I would guess ) the arbitration goes. I highly doubt that a relative position award will happen any more than it happened when U and Piedmont merged.

Oh trust me, it will work. Like I said. You just don't like it.

What about you 20 year guys? So you've been there 20 years. Great. 20 years at U.S. Airways isn't worth a bag of crap right now. If your 20 years is so wonderful then why are you a juniour FO?

I don't care how long you've been there. I just care where you sit on the seniority list. If you are in the bottom 10% of you active list then you should be in the bottom 10% of the newly combined list.

Why you think that your 20 years entitles you to automatically be senior to me baffles me. Actually it doesn't baffle me. I can see that its just pure greed.

As far as the Arbitrator is concerned, yeah, he might go for the fence idea, as long as no one tells him that your own CEO, Lakefield, said that U.S. Airways was finished without this merger. Yes...he said that.

 

[PHXFLYR]

IDIOTS.....I'm surrounded by IDIOTS!!!

Green,

I'd vote to staple AAA to the bottom

Now that is fair !

Hey"Parker"


You know, this statement just goes to show that what Southwest President Colleen Barrett said about you being on drugs was correct. Merger negotations
are going to be contentious enough without some idiot like you spouting B$
like that. Your ignorance and immaturity knows no bounds,does it?


PHXFLYR

 

[PHXFLYR]

Financially Stronger........ I DON"T THINK SO!!

321 Busdriver,

I don't see what isn't fair about combing the active pilots using relative seniority. You work for a stagnant airline with little or no movement. You chose to stay at an airline where you are in the bottom 30%, so after a merger why should you leap ahead of the bottom third of AWA? We are a financially stronger airline offering you a lifeline and yet you think you should be senior to all of our FO's who have been here under 9 years?

Green,

I wouldn't be so quick to spout off that AWA is the stronger airline financially. Sure we made a profit last quarter, but that was because of our fuel hedge. Absent that we would have posted a $10 million dollar loss. Even though our yields and loads have increased considerably over the last several quarters I think from a financial point of view the company is just treading water, and as such we are all just 'whistling while walking past the grave yard." With that said ,I think what we ARE bringing to the merger is management "talent" (an oxymoron if I ever heard one ! ) and access to credit;both of which are in extremely short supply at USAir . But to base your argument on us being the financially stronger of the two? I don't think so...

PHXFLYR

 

[Cactus73]

Green,

I wouldn't be so quick to spout off that AWA is the stronger airline financially. Sure we made a profit last quarter, but that was because of our fuel hedge. Absent that we would have posted a $10 million dollar loss. Even though our yields and loads have increased considerably over the last several quarters I think from a financial point of view the company is just treading water, and as such we are all just 'whistling while walking past the grave yard." With that said ,I think what we ARE bringing to the merger is management "talent" (an oxymoron if I ever heard one ! ) and access to credit;both of which are in extremely short supply at USAir . But to base your argument on us being the financially stronger of the two? I don't think so...

PHXFLYR

PHXFLYR,

I think you are starting to believe Parker's (the real one) speeches lately. Just two months ago he was saying that we were no where near bankruptcy and he had plenty of access to the financial markets for cash if we got into a crunch later in the year. He clearly needs to paint a dire picture at this point in order to get the ATSB and the Court to approve his merger.

Don't write off our profit just because it was based on fuel hedges. Southwest would have lost a significant amount of money if it weren't for their fuel hedges.

I would agree that we aren't in the best of financial shape, but I don't think we are as close to bankruptcy as Parker claims.

Our cash position has actually been building over the first six months. It doesn't matter that this is happening due to fuel hedges. We have more cash than we owe on our ATSB secured loan. USAir has significantly less cash than they owe on their loan. This balance sheet difference is substantial.

Would we be bankrupt in six months? Only Parker and his team have access to the books. Let's let our investment bankers determine if he is correct or not before you buy his line.

The recent statements by Parker are so opposed to what he has said in the past that you must question his motives.

As for the Doug Parker guy on this board. He's an ass to suggest a staple or anything unfair. He's no different though than the furloughed guys on here claiming some sort of career expectation to be in the top 5% in the next 5-10 years.

We need a fair and equitable list with fences. We have to all be able to work together when the dust settles. The only way this is going to happen is if we all sit back and let our merger committee's and/or and arbitrator work out a new list.

Who knows, maybe Southwest will offer a billion of their cash up for gates and planes and scuttle the deal. PLEASE Southwest, help us!

 

[Wiskey Driver]

No, that won't work. What about us 20 year guys who aren't furloughed? It would absolutely give AWA super seniorty. If your idea of "fair" is to put a 20 year F/O at the 70% mark at U the same relative position at the combined airline, then you need to rethink your position. I am fairly sure that an arbitrator will look at some sort of fence agreement long before your "scenerio" ever comes to pass.

Ok so if you feel that relative seniority won't work what exactally would be your solution??? We all know that DOH won't work because that is nothing more than a staple of our list to the bottom of yours. So what is the grand plan???

WD.

 

[Dizel8]

How about one for one on the combined list, now the only question is, who gets the top slot, U or AWA?

 

[Draginass]

Just remember, whoevers at the bottom of the list is going to be gone, gone, gone. There's not nearly enough money nor time won't fix the decay at U.