Attention Tsa Jumpseat Under Attack

[Hung Start]

Well, guys,,,, this has finally come to a head.
You know where this all started? About 5 years ago or so. And stick with me on this. I'm a 135 guy, have been all my life. And I can remember when on Christmas Eve, flying freight in,,,, well,,,, freight type airplane. 402, MU-2,,, pick one.
Got all of 2 seats,,, and 8 people show up, some in full blow uniforms, some changed. All wish to get home for the holiday, loved ones, kids,,, whatever.
So I (and many other freight guys), say,, I got 2 seats, my fat fanny is in one,,, do you care???????????
Everybody gets in. Gross weight?? HAHAHA How could I put that on a manifest??? Most fall asleep. Everybody including me is home for the holiday.

Would do it now???? Doubt it. Some low wizz wonder would cry chapter and verse to some Federali about that so and so that broke all the rules. Of course they would do it on their home computer after I got them to their home computer.

Gentlemen and Ladies. We have met the enemy. And they are us.
I never got a jump seat on a fancy airliner. Never asked. But you guys are just killing your own. Have at it!

Hung

 

[AAflyer]

I know it is our problem to fix. Since we seem to be getting fired for any little reason I think that the only way this problem will be fixed will be with the help of our mainline buddies. We start contract negotiations next month and this is just the first step of bad things that will happen over the next few years while we get our new contract. I would say that most TSA guys are doing what they can to fix the problem. I also agree that most mainline guys will fix the problem by denying TSA use of their jumpseat. I can definatley see that happening. However TSA management doesn't respect us and I think that we will need the support of other companies in order for Hulas to hear us and get the problem fixed.

Corn,

A few of our guys have now been kicked off the jumpseat, this issue is on our union's message board. Many now realize what is going on with the jumpseat and the alter ego carrier, you can thank AA73 for explaining it to the masses. As of now they are talking with our jumpseat coordinator. Maybe we can help....

Hang on.

AA

 

[AAflyer]

A little help,

I am headed to STL tomorrow from MSP. Flight 5359. Is this CHQ or TSA. It is getting full, need to know wether I should skip it and head over to NW.

Thanks

AA

 

[PilotSkydiver]

A little help,

I am headed to STL tomorrow from MSP. Flight 5359. Is this CHQ or TSA. It is getting full, need to know wether I should skip it and head over to NW.

Thanks

AA

CHQ...

 

[h25b]

to those who said this is a result from a "jumpseat war against *************************s pilots, it is not. It's a result of the FAA having complaints from TSA pilots who got fired for denying jumpseaters and then got fired.

I've really given up pointing out all of the various flaws in your position, but this line totally confuses me..

How in one sentence can you say it has nothing to do with a jumpseat war with GJ pilots and then in the very next sentence claim that it's a result of TSA pilots getting fired for denying jumpseats???

Sounds to me like some TSA pilots wanted to play jumpseat war and in response management decided to make a jumpseat war impossible.

Sort of like A=B=C therefore C=A ... ??? ...

....giving a free ride to these HoJets douchebags.

Pot, Kettle..... You get the picture. At least Redbook and TSA145 have a reason to be pi$$ed ... And you're asking me why I am even interested ???

 

[MINIME]

h25b.....my man...

You have posted many many times in defense of the GJ bunch. I ask you, why? You have done it with eloquent arguments and I respect you for that. But why do you insist on being on what I and the majority believe, is the wrong side of the fence? Whether the system was already broken before GJ OR wether GJ is legal or illegal in some lawmakers' views, is totally irrelevant.

People's lives are being hurt this very minute because of such selfish actions. Has this been done in the past? Of course, and the outcomes have been less than stellar. As a group (pilots) should we not be working toward the common goal of improving our livelyhoods while helping maintain our employers profitable? I say yes. But it needs to be done with everyone pulling in the same general direction, not cutting in line in front of each other. Cutting in line is in a way what these humans are doing. I know someone with your intelligence can surely see that. I think you know that this is nothing but counterproductive and just serves as a means for management to get what they really want. Walmart wages across the board!

I guess I'll stop my ranting for now. But it's a shame that we don't have someone with your intellect, while I believe misdirected, on our corner. It would help us all. Don't take this as an insult. I'm just stating my personal observations.

PEACE

 

[h25b]

h25b.....my man...

You have posted many many times in defense of the GJ bunch. I ask you, why? You have done it with eloquent arguments and I respect you for that. But why do you insist on being on what I and the majority believe, is the wrong side of the fence? Whether the system was already broken before GJ OR wether GJ is legal or illegal in some lawmakers' views, is totally irrelevant.

People's lives are being hurt this very minute because of such selfish actions. Has this been done in the past? Of course, and the outcomes have been less than stellar. As a group (pilots) should we not be working toward the common goal of improving our livelyhoods while helping maintain our employers profitable? I say yes. But it needs to be done with everyone pulling in the same general direction, not cutting in line in front of each other. Cutting in line is in a way what these humans are doing. I know someone with your intelligence can surely see that. I think you know that this is nothing but counterproductive and just serves as a means for management to get what they really want. Walmart wages across the board!

I guess I'll stop my ranting for now. But it's a shame that we don't have someone with your intellect, while I believe misdirected, on our corner. It would help us all. Don't take this as an insult. I'm just stating my personal observations.

PEACE

Thanks for your respectful debate for the opposition. Again, I AM NOT A GJ or any other regional airline pilot, more of an industry rubbernecker...

It's not that I don't harbor some slight sympathy for the TSA plight. I just feel like their anger is misdirected and only serves to perpetuate the divide and defeat strategy that has been so successful for management as of late. The single biggest problem in the unionized labor movement is division. Period.

The GJ pilots are just an easy target for those too stupid, ignorant, or blinded to see the real problems facing the industry as a whole. The simple existance of GJ's is a testimony to the above. I'll submit to you that jumpseat wars, physical and verbal intimidation, and the other schoolyard antics that some of these "pilots" are participating in is not (in your words, not mine) "pulling in the same direction."

I appreciate your nice words, but just remember.. I did decide to be a pilot. I can't be that smart. (142 IQ and I decided to be a pilot???)

 

[johndt]

The single biggest problem in the unionized labor movement is division. Period.

A decent point. Not being an active commercial pilot has probably dulled your sense of the industry, however. Here's the point: HK found a loophole that circumvents the spirit of the contract he signed with the TSA pilot group. He has a history of using unethical practices to gain flying that (ethically) belongs to others. That's business.

But if you're a pilot, it's not that hard to avoid applying for that job. If you take a job, knowing that you will be used as a tool to hurt others in an unethical business venture, I'm willing to call you out on that. I believe that you are acting unethically if you choose to fly for a company like that. That's the first reason that GJ pilots are bad - they're unethical tools.

(142 IQ and I decided to be a pilot???)

You're a tool.

 

[h25b]

You're a tool.

Probably so, one look at my avatar and you could figure that one out. But then again I don't get too wound up about insults from an internet bully..

Maybe you could answer these questions?

Just what is the point of running your mouth off about the GJ pilots? What do you hope to accomplish ? What is your ultimate goal? Do you believe that they will eventually go away?

 

[johndt]

Just what is the point of running your mouth off about the GJ pilots?

Just what is the point of running your mouth off about the GJ pilots?

 

[h25b]

Just what is the point of running your mouth off about the GJ pilots?

I haven't run my mouth off at all. I have been one of the coolest heads of the entire debate. Instead of trying to turn the tables perhaps you could just try to answer my simple question ???

 

[Snoop]

I haven't run my mouth off at all. I have been one of the coolest heads of the entire debate. Instead of trying to turn the tables perhaps you could just try to answer my simple question ???

Answer..... F Gjets.....

 

[h25b]

Answer..... F Gjets.....

I rest my case.... None of you have the slightest clue what you're trying to accomplish.

 

[johndt]

I rest my case.... None of you have the slightest clue what you're trying to accomplish.

I haven't run my mouth off at all. I have been one of the coolest heads of the entire debate. Instead of trying to turn the tables perhaps you could just try to answer my simple question ???

The point is, your 'simple' question is just that. Re-read some of the previous posts on this issue, then use your 141 IQ and figure it out.

I actually have a horse in this race; this isn't some esoteric exercise for me. I face losing my job to those guys. What this message board does, is something ALPA has been unwilling and/or unable to do: keep people informed.

You don't have a horse in this race, apparently. The reason people get upset with people like you is that you come on here spouting off as if you know what you're talking about and as if you have some loftier goals you're trying to attain by being a jerk and trying to score intellectual points in a discussion about things that are hurting real people. You just don't care about that. That's fine, but I'm sure you can find better things to do with your evenings.

So the better question is, and here's your table turn: Why do -you- keep running your mouth on this board? What do -you- hope to accomplish? It makes me think that you're just a mean guy with nothing to do.

 

[h25b]

If you lose your jobs you have no one other than yourselves and your MEC to blame. Neither were successful in negotiating the additional flying so therefore you have the 2 pilot groups flying for 2 certificates. Of course though you are probably the same type person that gave CHQ a hard time when they got a less than perfect contract while trying to avoid the same issue.

Doesn't matter that's all history now and GJ's isn't going anywhere. No matter how childish you decide to act now the NMB has spoken, it's finished. You have nothing else to gain from acting like a bunch a whining children who didn't get what they wanted for Christmas.

So now I shall ask one more time. What exactly is your jumpseat war and all of the rest of this horse poo going to gain for you ???

1. You're not going to get those jets back.
2. You have no additional job security to gain.
3. Pilots will continue to seek employment at GJ.
4. Those pilots will in fact progress normally through their career assuming they are otherwise qualified.
5. The GJ pilots will in all likelyhood gain union representation and will be in the same boat you are... Fighting an a$$hole management team hell bent on crushing organized labor. **

** This will be your ultimate revenge, if there's ever going to be any...

Thanks for bringing up ALPA. Heck they were stearing their membership towards employment at GJ's. That must have been embarrassing for you.

Which leads me to answering your question because you will obviously never answer mine. What do I hope to accomplish ?

1. Knowledge by debate.
2. Killing idle time.
3. Driving home the fact that you all are wasting your breath on a path that will only serve to further divide the ranks of industry pilots thus accelerating the already meteoric crash of our profession.

 

[TSA145]

I've really given up pointing out all of the various flaws in your position, but this line totally confuses me..

How in one sentence can you say it has nothing to do with a jumpseat war with GJ pilots and then in the very next sentence claim that it's a result of TSA pilots getting fired for denying jumpseats???

Sounds to me like some TSA pilots wanted to play jumpseat war and in response management decided to make a jumpseat war impossible.

Sort of like A=B=C therefore C=A ... ??? ...




Pot, Kettle..... You get the picture. At least Redbook and TSA145 have a reason to be pi$$ed ... And you're asking me why I am even interested ???

Simple. A TSA pilot can deny a Go Jet pilot or ANYBODY for that matter, for SAFETY reasons. I would not feel comfortable with one of those scumbags in the jumpseat. The have demonstrated that they will do anything. Need an example? "Mister" J.A. came up to the cockpit telling the captain the he was going to sit up front even though there were seats in the back (that is against company policy anyway) without even asking for a ride. That is suspicious (sp?). I would not want one of those guys in the jumpseat. That is not a war. That led to the captain of the flight to deny him and therefore get terminated by the company. Later he complained to the FAA, and after a "conversation" between the company and our POI the pilot was re-instated and the jumpseat taken away from us.

 

[h25b]

Simple. A TSA pilot can deny a GJ pilot or ANYBODY for that matter, for SAFETY reasons. I would not feel comfortable with one of those scumbags in the jumpseat. The have demonstrated that they will do anything. Need an example? "Mister" J.A. came up to the cockpit telling the captain the he was going to sit up front even though there were seats in the back (that is against company policy anyway) without even asking for a ride. That is suspicious (sp?). I would not want one of those guys in the jumpseat. That is not a war. That led to the captain of the flight to deny him and therefore get terminated by the company. Later he complained to the FAA, and after a "conversation" between the company and our POI the pilot was re-instated and the jumpseat taken away from us.

You make my point perfectly, thank you... If you would have taken my advice (and I am not the only one who's said this) and all kept your mouths shut and made no threats this might not have happened. But instead, given all of the threats of jumpseat hostility and remarks towards the GJ pilots you created a situation in which the burden of proof is on the TSA pilot group. Management (and maybe even the FAA if you keep it up) will just automatically assume it's a simple jumpseat war... I doubt the company would have issued this policy had the situation you described been anyone other than a GJ pilot. You guys have spent all of your time threatening to deny GJ pilots jumpseats and sure enough you did... And sure enough, management reacted. Pretty predictable given TSA management's track record.

If the situation you describe is totally true than I agree that a pilot getting terminated is BS. But then again, what else would you expect ???

 

[LabMonkey76]

Which leads me to answering your question because you will obviously never answer mine. What do I hope to accomplish ?

1. Knowledge by debate.
2. Killing idle time.
3. Driving home the fact that you all are wasting your breath on a path that will only serve to further divide the ranks of industry pilots thus accelerating the already meteoric crash of our profession.

I don't throw fits. I don't throw people out of jumpseats. I don't even express anger publicly. I'm even polite in public to everyone. All I want to know is how TSA pilots have further divided the ranks and accelerated the meteoric crash of our profession by standing up for themselves in every way we know how (some professional, some not). Absurd or not, we have stood up and protested. In this G*J*t issue the TSA pilot group is certainly NOT further dividing the ranks of industry pilots and accelerating the meteoric crash of OUR profession. What are you thinking????

 

[h25b]

I don't throw fits. I don't throw people out of jumpseats. I don't even express anger publicly. I'm even polite in public to everyone. All I want to know is how TSA pilots have further divided the ranks and accelerated the meteoric crash of our profession by standing up for themselves in every way we know how (some professional, some not). Absurd or not, we have stood up and protested. In this G*J*t issue the TSA pilot group is certainly NOT further dividing the ranks of industry pilots and accelerating the meteoric crash of OUR profession. What are you thinking????

If you don't think this is EXACTLY what airline management (speaking of them as a whole) LOVES there is no hope for you. They just love to read through these boards and see the havoc they have created. Exactly what they live for. Words like, "Hos", "lowering the bar", & "race to the bottom" are all terms they live for.

The more time/money they can get us to devote towards fighting other pilot groups is less time/money we can devote towards fighting them. You ever stop and wonder how many dollars are spent on this BS ?? I'd just assume the money be spent on putting an end to this in the future.

It's called picking your battles.

 

[blackbox]

H25B,

Do you work for TSA? Do you know of anyone that works for TSA? I dont work for HK, but I do have a friend that works there. Its easy to be an outsider and say you guys are childish, grow up/you lost your jets to GJ, you cant do anything about it/ blah blah blah. But when they have a sub-standard contract and is up for contract renewal it sucks to have an alter ego carrier to be whipsawed against. If managements offer to TSA is horseshit, and the pilots shoot it down, what stops TSA holdings to just transfer all their flying to GJ? TSA has been trying to merge the lists to prevent this, and management said "sure, if you want to do that, extend you current CBA for 4 more years". 4 more years of a shitty contract, no thanks. That right there should show you what gj is doing to the industry and TSA pilots.

My airline is in contract negotiations as we speak. And its well below industry average. When its time to re-up the CBA, you hope to improve your pay and QOL this time around. For me, it would suck if my company decided to start "stopjets" and lose all hope for a better contract.

So i can understand their bitterness and can you blame them for coming on a public messageboard telling others to stay away and not accept a job there? I hope so.


I, like minime, also respect what you post here, And at times people can sound immature in the forums. I think its pretty silly how everybody uses the word "tool" or "douchebag" on this website. but when you went and bragged about you IQ score, that was pretty gay. haha