Asa pbs ta

[lonestarpilot20]

Not everyone stretches the vaca into 17 days as it is. To do that, one drops usually 3 days touching the first day of vaca, and then drops the 3 days touching the last. That is 6 days unpaid off your credit! I for one can't afford that. I get 8 or 9 days off now as it is, so this whole stretching vaca isn't that big a deal for everyone.

Well I would drop 3 day trips if I could hold them, so I drop 4 day trips. I usually bid Sun-Wed. trips and drop all conflicting. Yes I usually loose a little money, but we travel out of the country and it is nice to have plenty of time before and after to take care of other stuff.

 

[COOPERVANE]

People!!!

Can't vote until we see the TA!!!

Don't pre-judge!!!!

If it sucks...it sucks!!

But you can't call it yet.

I said the same thing about our current contract.... wait...get informed....ask questions....Give it a chance. I listened, I asked questions. You see the turd we ended up with. It is SO full of loopholes.

I hate to sound so close minded but you know......you know without a doubt this will be a disaster for our QOL simply because the company is salivating to get it. 1% pay increase with a couple of extra days off a year? 5 day trips, no more 3 days EVER AGAIN? blocked up to midnight before vacations? Are you F'ing kidding me?

I was told that this PBS TA would fix open time, fix ready reserve, fix the lines, etc...Here we are filing grievences and using PBS capital to regain QOL issues we thought were put to bed with the current contract. The very contract the company is wiping there a$$ with as we speak. Now you want to trust them to get this right?

I don't know what the answer is, as I think PBS IS coming like it or not. We just need to man up and turn down the first offer.

Someone above said it best. This will not put a dent in our costs, but it will put a crater in our QOL

 

[Cpt Oveur]

You sound like that idiot who shot his mouth saying "I trust my negotiating committee, I'm voting no" before the TA was even reached. Unless you have seen more than the rest of the pilots, there is no reason to think that 5 day trips are coming.

A one year contract on current rates allows the company to bid for more flying rather than negotiating rates while other companies are picking up RFPs. Use the time and opportunities to go to your pilot reps and the PBS group and ASK QUESTIONS. The very worst thing you can do is make a decision based off rumors and how someone else doesn't like their PBS at their company.

 

[79%N1]

And you probably have a better chance of getting more 3 days with the PBS then we have now.

 

[CFI2766]

Go on. Deal Brad an ace. He'll take care of you. Ask any Skywest guy.

My biggest gripe with PBS is that it takes the onus of figuring out Company business, training and transition pairings away from the company and puts it on you. Now YOU have to bid around what THEY want and also make up for any inefficiencies that have been preassigned. I.e. You normally bid 22-hour 4-day trips on Mon-Thur. A training pairing might take up two days and pay 6 hours. Now you either have to request or bid for a training event on days you would normally bid off OR bid pairings on days you would normally have off to make up for the crappy pay value.

In a nutshell, this is a good summary of where PBS is more 'efficient' for the company. It's a fundamental part of any PBS system; I'm not sure one software program versus any other software program could change this.

 

[ASA_Aviator]

In a nutshell, this is a good summary of where PBS is more 'efficient' for the company. It's a fundamental part of any PBS system; I'm not sure one software program versus any other software program could change this.

Efficiency is a good thing. We will get more flying if we are more efficient.

The way I look at the vacation thing is that I would rather be able to get one solid week off per month than 14 days in a row a couple times a year. With PBS, we should be able to work things out so that we have that week off, if desired. Even the junior junior people will get an occasional weekend off, which they aren't getting now. It is just the more modern way of scheduling, and it will be better for us in the long run because if the company is doing well, we are doing well. Unless the TA is full of crap, I'm voting yes. (I'll actually read the TA, and make a decision then, unlike the NO NO NO NO people.)

 

[maxcackel]

I can't wait to see all the good things in this ta followed by "but the company MAY", what a joke. How long did it take the lawyers to loop hole the hell out of the current contract. This is a PAY CUT. Just some round numbers you will lose around 5 days off per week of vacation plus 2 days for training events per year. CAPT<7yrs = 12 days lost x 3.75min x $70. = $3150yr
CAPT>7yrs = 17 days lost x 3.75min x $85. = $5418yr
CAPT>15yr = 22 days lost x 3.75min x $100 = $8250yr
FO 4yr = 12 days lost x 3.75min x $40 = $1800yr
Then there are the schedules, did anyone notice the nap line for this month that was all White Plains? I did and I personally would do reserve before bidding that line it looked brutal. I had a choice with our system not to. With PBS you could get that line. But wait you say I will filter out HPN in my pbs bid. But what if the guy or gal jr to you gets a better line that has one HPN in it but the rest of the line would work better for you but now you have a worse line. With the system we have now you can see that. I avoid HPN unless the line works for me but it better be great the rest of the month. You lose that control with PBS.

 

[maxcackel]

And don't forget the pay cut for all the open time you use to pick up to get that 95hr line will no longer exist. The crappy line pbs gives you is it for the month like it or not because there will be nothing to pick up or swap for due to pbs eliminating all the conflicting month to month, training and vacation drops. Sure they will fix the open time rules, they don't care. But you are thinking about the new system with the amount of open time now, then the first time after pbs you jump in and are shocked that there is very little if any open time, but o'boy there is new ways to bid on nothing. The only way the company saves money is buy paying you less and working you more. How do people not see this? And WF already spreading the word that management "THINKS" we will explode with new flying makes me laugh the hardest. Just like Comair expanded with their paycut. Stop.. laughing...so...hard.....crying....now...........
If an alpa rep tells me that with a straight face I will question his sanity.

 

[Tarzan]

The only way the company saves money is buy paying you less and working you more. How do people not see this? And WF already spreading the word that management "THINKS" we will explode with new flying makes me laugh the hardest. Just like Comair expanded with their paycut. Stop.. laughing...so...hard.....crying....now...........
If an alpa rep tells me that with a straight face I will question his sanity.

I'll have to question your sanity with that comment of working more and paying less. How's that work anyhow? I don't believe anyone here honestly believes we will have a huge amount of new flying. I can promise you though unless we streamline some, we will see NONE.

 

[JumpersAway]

And don't forget the pay cut for all the open time you use to pick up to get that 95hr line will no longer exist. The crappy line pbs gives you is it for the month like it or not because there will be nothing to pick up or swap for due to pbs eliminating all the conflicting month to month, training and vacation drops. Sure they will fix the open time rules, they don't care. But you are thinking about the new system with the amount of open time now, then the first time after pbs you jump in and are shocked that there is very little if any open time, but o'boy there is new ways to bid on nothing. The only way the company saves money is buy paying you less and working you more. How do people not see this? And WF already spreading the word that management "THINKS" we will explode with new flying makes me laugh the hardest. Just like Comair expanded with their paycut. Stop.. laughing...so...hard.....crying....now...........
If an alpa rep tells me that with a straight face I will question his sanity.

Max- hang in there brother............sure are prejudice against it and we haven't even seen an iota of literature on the thing. If it sux, it sux, but ya gotta at least read the thing.

Bottom line is that everyone from another airline seems to have an opinion on the thing, but its akin to not buying a Chevy because your neighbor bitches about how bad his Honda sux.........We've got to call an ace an ace and a spade a spade here. Be a leader and educate yourself for your own opinions here guys (with the actual agreement from our PBS comittee in hand, and not someone else's).......................

 

[sweptback]

Folks, keep an open mind. We're one of the only airlines in recent memory that has come to a mutual agreement on PBS and not had it shoved down their throats in bankruptcy (Continental, Delta, etc.) or had it forced upon them with not say (SkyWest).

 

[at7driver]

then it should be fine... ya right..

 

[777forever]

And don't forget the pay cut for all the open time you use to pick up to get that 95hr line will no longer exist. The crappy line pbs gives you is it for the month like it or not because there will be nothing to pick up or swap for due to pbs eliminating all the conflicting month to month, training and vacation drops. Sure they will fix the open time rules, they don't care. But you are thinking about the new system with the amount of open time now, then the first time after pbs you jump in and are shocked that there is very little if any open time, but o'boy there is new ways to bid on nothing. The only way the company saves money is buy paying you less and working you more. How do people not see this? And WF already spreading the word that management "THINKS" we will explode with new flying makes me laugh the hardest. Just like Comair expanded with their paycut. Stop.. laughing...so...hard.....crying....now...........
If an alpa rep tells me that with a straight face I will question his sanity.

Comair is a poor example. Comair is owned by mainline Delta who looks out for the best interests of mainline Delta. SKW Inc. owns ASA and is 100% committed to making ASA successful.

 

[ASA_Aviator]

Comair is a poor example. Comair is owned by mainline Delta who looks out for the best interests of mainline Delta. SKW Inc. owns ASA and is 100% committed to making ASA successful.

Ehh...I'm not so sure about that last sentence.

Skywest Inc. is 100% committed to making Skywest Inc. successful. If at any point ASA starts hurting the bottom-line, they wouldn't hold onto "us" for long. They would keep our assets, I bet. 700s and 900s are in short supply, but the rest of us...I'm not so sure.

My unknowledgeable opinion is that they are willing to give us the benefit of the doubt for a while, and if they can make us cheaper, they will think about keeping us around due to the advantages of having two operating certificates, etc. But, who knows?

 

[wms]

I think the thing with BH at SKYW was who he worked for because we haven't had the same issues you guys had. Our current VP of Flight Ops and company CP operated differently under our old mgmt, also. The execs can only run the company the way the bosses tell them to.

Also, without a union you you guys get what they give you, good or bad. In our situation it's negotiated. Just Sayin'.

 

[777forever]

Max- hang in there brother............sure are prejudice against it and we haven't even seen an iota of literature on the thing. If it sux, it sux, but ya gotta at least read the thing.

Bottom line is that everyone from another airline seems to have an opinion on the thing, but its akin to not buying a Chevy because your neighbor bitches about how bad his Honda sux.........We've got to call an ace an ace and a spade a spade here. Be a leader and educate yourself for your own opinions here guys (with the actual agreement from our PBS comittee in hand, and not someone else's).......................

And the same people from other airlines that are telling us don't do it will be the ones to reap the benefits when they are awarded RFPs and ASA is given the big FU because of stalled PBS negotiations. If you're at ASA and don't think the new management is here to help and not fight I don't know where you've been.

 

[blesko]

If you're at ASA and don't think the new management is here to help and not fight I don't know where you've been.

Not quite right Mr. Business Professor. Management is out for management and the company bottom line, thats what allows the company to pay us. If the company's interests give an added value for us, the employees, then great. I however would concede that BH, under the strings pulled by JA and his group have made a significant attempt to balance BOTH, company and employee interests. With PBS, its business, the company wants what will improve the bottom line, perhaps that will allow us to establish our costs, bid on any upcoming RFP's more accurately and as a by product, perhaps, will benefit the pilot group with addtional flying.

 

[Texx]

Where's F'n Alpa with an email. Mushrooms in the dark. This will be my last straw with the current Reps.

TZ was too busy doing his own thing.

Yep, it's time.

 

[Texx]

I can't even imagine anything they could offer to make me vote in PBS. Just ask any CAL pilot about it. This is not going to make us competitive. This will only make a dent in our cost but make a crater in our QOL. I know I know, I have not even seen it yet. But like I said I can't even imagine.
It is also interesting that the union has been so quite but to say how far away they are from a TA, then the elections get close and now we have a TA. Did the current MEC start to think they would not win reelection and wanted control over what was in the TA? Is it because the more senior MEC would be the one's to benefit the most from it? Just some thoughts. VOTE NO!

Does CAL do the same type of flying that ASA does? Do they have the same PBS that ASA will?

 

[Texx]

ahhh,
if history is indicator of the past aos will be your "new" pbs vendor, you just don't realize it.
Pbr

ding ding ding wrong!!! Try again!