Asa pbs ta

[JoeMerchant]

I can tell it will not be for the hope of under bidding the other airlines. It is not our job as employees to give the company money so they can get us more flying.

News flash...the other airlines are under bidding us.

 

[Baronman]

ASA folks, this is someone who's company would directly benefit from ASA turning down PBS. Of course he's going to say don't do it.



Exactly. PBS schedules very efficiently so you get paid what you earned or actually worked. Max wants the free money which is a horrible way for a company to be cost effective and win more flying.

It gives pilots a very bad rep when a program that makes a company more efficient is turned down by pilots because they will lose their free money pay.

Why not just take a 20% paycut, and institute PBS to make absolutely sure you are more competitive to "win" more flying.

Wow, seems like you are really against what you call "free money pay." The way I see it I am NOT paid for more time as compared to the "free money pay."

Maybe you could give a piece of your pay back...you know like a grass-roots effort to help your chances to "win" more flying.

 

[Tarzan]

I will look at the offer with a 100 percent open mind, but like I said at the top of this thread I can't imagine what the company could offer to make it worth me giving up. I can tell it will not be for the hope of under bidding the other airlines. It is not our job as employees to give the company money so they can get us more flying.

How can you say that? You've already made your mind up regardless of how you claim to think. It is evident in your posts. In regards to what our jobs entail, since you belong to a union, you do have an obligation to use the leverage we have with discretion. Using your logic, we should get all we possibly can because we have them by the short hairs because we can strike. Right? So we put them into a tiny box that was small to begin with due to sheer amount of regulation already imposed by the FAA and make it even smaller? Hate to break it to you, but you and I DO bear some responsibility in how our company is run and how much it can make.

 

[maxcackel]

Why not just take a 20% paycut, and institute PBS to make absolutely sure you are more competitive to "win" more flying.

Wow, seems like you are really against what you call "free money pay." The way I see it I am NOT paid for more time as compared to the "free money pay."

Maybe you could give a piece of your pay back...you know like a grass-roots effort to help your chances to "win" more flying.

Now were talking, I'll add drop 70 seat pay to all 50 seat pay and give up riggs and min day. Then we might start to be competitive.

 

[777forever]

No thanks, you can keep the concession I will keep my few extra days off here and there and my ability to know my overnights, pick up extra flying from all the dropped trips when they pull all the lines down to 75hrs or less. Whats to keep them from all 75hr lines with pbs. But wait you say if we sign here we will all get 85-95hr lines with major expansion because we will be able to underbid all the competition. I don't think that will happen. Pbs without an expansion would really suck, your willing to risk that?

I would absolutely be willing to risk that. However, IMO PBS implemented correctly would not suck at all. It might be BETTER than it is now. I am not saying whether or not to vote yes or no on the upcoming LOA. All I'm saying is eventually we'll have to bring PBS to ASA. No doubt about it.

 

[maxcackel]

I would absolutely be willing to risk that. However, IMO PBS implemented correctly would not suck at all. It might be BETTER than it is now. I am not saying whether or not to vote yes or no on the upcoming LOA. All I'm saying is eventually we'll have to bring PBS to ASA. No doubt about it.

You wonder why I am so vocal about this before we see the ta? Someone had to counter all of the statements like this. And it's fun to debate the other side of the coin. It also brings up issues that people have not thought of, including myself.

 

[B.T.Justice]

If you hadn't earned the money then it's not your money in the first place.

Yes it is...its part of the pay package...and its called "soft pay." How many airline jobs have you had?

 

[damnflyboy]

Well f*#k me in the mustache and call me Sally.

 

[SiuDude]

Well f*#k me in the mustache and call me Sally.

Brad?

 

[Stifler's Mom]

Oh yeah, here we go. This should be an entertaining thread for awhile.

 

[crj567]

Well f*#k me in the mustache and call me Sally.

Damn-

That was funny!

"Amazing job trying to meet our performance goals-(especially that psycho FA on the OurASA who is always yelling "GoTeam" and "YaaayyyyyTeamwork")

-P.S.- "She can f*ck my moustache any day of the week!" -Brad

 

[Plainsman]

Not sure if anyone has hit on the subject, but why can't we get time and a half pay for at least the big holidays in return pbs. I know that would go a long way in getting the junior crowd on board.

 

[av8tor19]

Compass and Skywest use the AOS system. CAL and DAL have separate systems.

It's not really a pay cut if negotiated the right way. If block hours are divided by a factor (that's negotiated), will determine the number of lines. That is the only way so you don't get screwed.

Bonus:

If some guy wants to fly 90 and another wants to fly 72, the system will allow it since it looks at the big picture.

Quality usually goes the the 50 percentile. After that you will get some of your requests but not all. Maybe 2-3 weekends instead of 4.

Holidays and weekends if you are in the top 50%

Average of one more day off per crewmember.

Choose your reserve days.

Less reserve needed.

Drawbacks:

Vacation and transition conflicts are gone.

5% reduction of total crews needed.

 

[ASA_Aviator]

Compass and Skywest use the AOS system. CAL and DAL have separate systems.

It's not really a pay cut if negotiated the right way. If block hours are divided by a factor (that's negotiated), will determine the number of lines. That is the only way so you don't get screwed.

Bonus:

If some guy wants to fly 90 and another wants to fly 72, the system will allow it since it looks at the big picture.

Quality usually goes the the 50 percentile. After that you will get some of your requests but not all. Maybe 2-3 weekends instead of 4.

Holidays and weekends if you are in the top 50%

Average of one more day off per crewmember.

Choose your reserve days.

Less reserve needed.

Drawbacks:

Vacation and transition conflicts are gone.

5% reduction of total crews needed.

5% reduction of total crews needed is not a drawback. That makes our company more competitive, which in turn gets more flying, and we all get to keep our jobs, and get improvements in our QOL because we are growing. We end up needing to hire if we are growing.

So the choice becomes, hypothetically, needing 100 pilots with no PBS, or needing 95 pilots with PBS until we get growth, then needing 110 when we get more airplanes.

Why is this so hard to understand for some of you? Saving the company money makes your job more secure, and QOL better in the long run!

 

[SiuDude]

5% reduction of total crews needed is not a drawback. That makes our company more competitive, which in turn gets more flying, and we all get to keep our jobs, and get improvements in our QOL because we are growing. We end up needing to hire if we are growing.

So the choice becomes, hypothetically, needing 100 pilots with no PBS, or needing 95 pilots with PBS until we get growth, then needing 110 when we get more airplanes.

Why is this so hard to understand for some of you? Saving the company money makes your job more secure, and QOL better in the long run!

Plus getting additional flying reduces our average block-hour cost even more. However, everyone should realize that voting in PBS in no way guarantees additional flying.

 

[ASA_Aviator]

Plus getting additional flying reduces our average block-hour cost even more. However, everyone should realize that voting in PBS in no way guarantees additional flying.

True, but NOT getting PBS pretty much guarantees not getting more flying.

 

[maxcackel]

True, but NOT getting PBS pretty much guarantees not getting more flying.

Says who, you. Sorry but how do you know we won't get flying with out pbs. How do you know pbs is enough savings to get more flying. How do you know it won't take pbs, dual qual, and a pay cut to get it done. Neither of us do unless you are Jerry or Brad, and in that case please show me some facts not guesses.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Says who, you. Sorry but how do you know we won't get flying with out pbs. How do you know pbs is enough savings to get more flying. How do you know it won't take pbs, dual qual, and a pay cut to get it done. Neither of us do unless you are Jerry or Brad, and in that case please show me some facts not guesses.

Jerry and Brad don't know either....We bid on flying...Only those who decide who wins the bid know.

ALPA failed and allowed this "game" to be played for flying...We can either play the game, or not. If we don't, forget winning any new flying, we will lose what we have....It would be nice if ALPA had stopped this "bidding" within a brand, but they didn't.

I don't want PBS...It will have a negative affect on my QOL regarding vacation. I stretched 2 of my vacations this year into 5 weeks each. There will be no more of that with PBS. However I am voting yes regardless of what the agreement says. QOL will suffer much more if we don't stay competitive.

 

[ASA_Aviator]

Says who, you. Sorry but how do you know we won't get flying with out pbs. How do you know pbs is enough savings to get more flying. How do you know it won't take pbs, dual qual, and a pay cut to get it done. Neither of us do unless you are Jerry or Brad, and in that case please show me some facts not guesses.

It is a guess, but an educated one. One supported by our history of not getting new growth, and by the fact that we are one of the more costly regionals. We are the only DCI carrier without PBS. It may not make us that much more competitive in reality, but in Delta's eyes, it makes us a lot less competitive to not have it. We must appear to be doing all that we can to appear competitive to Delta.

It may take more to get new flying, but without PBS, there is no chance. I say that because we sure as heck haven't gotten any recently, and we can be undercut by everyone else out there. Sure, we got 900s, but there has been a net loss in flying over the past 2 years.

Keep on. Keep on resisting progress. PBS is the way of the future. I just hope you old farts don't screw all of us who want to turn this airline around.

 

[ASA_Aviator]

Jerry and Brad don't know either....We bid on flying...Only those who decide who wins the bid know.

ALPA failed and allowed this "game" to be played for flying...We can either play the game, or not. If we don't, forget winning any new flying, we will lose what we have....It would be nice if ALPA had stopped this "bidding" within a brand, but they didn't.

I don't want PBS...It will have a negative affect on my QOL regarding vacation. I stretched 2 of my vacations this year into 5 weeks each. There will be no more of that with PBS. However I am voting yes regardless of what the agreement says. QOL will suffer much more if we don't stay competitive.

Joe, I'm not convinced that it will negatively impact your vacation. Well, you likely won't be able to turn 1 week into 3, but you may be able to get 1.5 weeks off for 1 week pretty easily. Maybe more, if you are good at using the system. One benefit will be that you'll be able to get a week off each month, if you so choose, and are senior enough.

I know for me, I never make my one week into two because I don't like taking the pay hit. PBS will give us more flexibility month to month, and a more advanced way of getting schedules in general. We don't bid on paper for the same reason we need PBS. It is ancient technology to bid lines. We need to advance a little, at least to the late 20th century here...