Asa pbs ta

[Crash Pad]

I don't understand how PBS helps us compete. Say we get PBS. What now we can beat out Pinnacle, Mesa, Republic, go jets, etc.... They already have PBS and more junior pilots... we lose. I will admit it won't be a blow out but honestly did you see how the station awards went? Our senior pilot group can't compete.

Maybe if we took a sub-mesa paycut. Then installed PBS. Then go dual-qualification. We could grow and save our jobs.

 

[ohplease!]

I don't understand how PBS helps us compete. Say we get PBS. What now we can beat out Pinnacle, Mesa, Republic, go jets, etc.... They already have PBS and more junior pilots... we lose. I will admit it won't be a blow out but honestly did you see how the station awards went? Our senior pilot group can't compete.

Maybe if we took a sub-mesa paycut. Then installed PBS. Then go dual-qualification. We could grow and save our jobs.

if you have a better idea, now would be the time to speak up.....

 

[Crash Pad]

Well if it was me. I would demand one list. Whatever it took to get one list I would do.

That won't happen. Ok how about a no furlough no downgrade clause. This thing passes and we lose 20 RJ's... You'll have 10 year captains clinging to reserve.

Lets also be clear. No new flying exists. Full stop. So yes this will make us competative for a non-existent bid. Well done.

Listen this thing will pass no problem. We will vote ourselves out of jobs. Similar to major airlines and scope. Granted it will only be 15% of our jobs... not the 50% gem the majors did.

 

[JumpersAway]

Well if it was me. I would demand one list. Whatever it took to get one list I would do.

That won't happen. Ok how about a no furlough no downgrade clause. This thing passes and we lose 20 RJ's... You'll have 10 year captains clinging to reserve.

Lets also be clear. No new flying exists. Full stop. So yes this will make us competative for a non-existent bid. Well done.

Listen this thing will pass no problem. We will vote ourselves out of jobs. Similar to major airlines and scope. Granted it will only be 15% of our jobs... not the 50% gem the majors did.

Crash- there is flying out there, and there will continue to be flying out there- Express Jet is proof positive of that. It's true that PBS increases efficiency in order to do more with less. It's also true that it really only helps the company if we grow- something we need to do here. We've got a lot of smart people running some hard numbers, and the bottom line is that this thing's gotta work here. That's that's the cold hard fact if we even have a shot at survival. Why so dead set against it- seems to me that with your outlook on things it should be apparent that we have nothing to lose and everything to gain......... More downgrades and displacements will happen anyway- 20 RJ's gone is a massive hit, so at least PBS gives us a reasonable shot of finding some homes for these things, and it also lowers overhead for some at risk flying as well. We're not down and we're certainly not out, but it is gonna take some serious changes to ensure we stay in the game.

 

[maxcackel]

I don't understand how PBS helps us compete. Say we get PBS. What now we can beat out Pinnacle, Mesa, Republic, go jets, etc.... They already have PBS and more junior pilots... we lose. I will admit it won't be a blow out but honestly did you see how the station awards went? Our senior pilot group can't compete.

Maybe if we took a sub-mesa paycut. Then installed PBS. Then go dual-qualification. We could grow and save our jobs.

Sound about right to me.

 

[maxcackel]

Well if it was me. I would demand one list. Whatever it took to get one list I would do.

That won't happen. Ok how about a no furlough no downgrade clause. This thing passes and we lose 20 RJ's... You'll have 10 year captains clinging to reserve.

Lets also be clear. No new flying exists. Full stop. So yes this will make us competative for a non-existent bid. Well done.

Listen this thing will pass no problem. We will vote ourselves out of jobs. Similar to major airlines and scope. Granted it will only be 15% of our jobs... not the 50% gem the majors did.

That is one thing that I thought would be in the TA is a no downgrade clause. Everyone is convinced Mesa will lose flying but United will sign back up when J.O. drops the price to nothing just to keep it.

 

[maxcackel]

Crash- there is flying out there, and there will continue to be flying out there- Express Jet is proof positive of that. It's true that PBS increases efficiency in order to do more with less. It's also true that it really only helps the company if we grow- something we need to do here. We've got a lot of smart people running some hard numbers, and the bottom line is that this thing's gotta work here. That's that's the cold hard fact if we even have a shot at survival. Why so dead set against it- seems to me that with your outlook on things it should be apparent that we have nothing to lose and everything to gain......... More downgrades and displacements will happen anyway- 20 RJ's gone is a massive hit, so at least PBS gives us a reasonable shot of finding some homes for these things, and it also lowers overhead for some at risk flying as well. We're not down and we're certainly not out, but it is gonna take some serious changes to ensure we stay in the game.

Express Jet got what flying, some temp from Delta because they were out in LA, and some temp flying from United that ended a month ago. They thought it was going to be renewed but has not. And guess what they DON'T have PBS! And their contract is similar to ours, pay, min day, rigs, and better reserve rules.

 

[ASA_Aviator]

I don't understand how PBS helps us compete. Say we get PBS. What now we can beat out Pinnacle, Mesa, Republic, go jets, etc.... They already have PBS and more junior pilots... we lose. I will admit it won't be a blow out but honestly did you see how the station awards went? Our senior pilot group can't compete.

Maybe if we took a sub-mesa paycut. Then installed PBS. Then go dual-qualification. We could grow and save our jobs.

Let's assume you are correct for a second...

How does it follow, then, that we shouldn't at least try to be more efficient? That's like the fat chick who eats even more cake... Maybe she wouldn't be a playboy bunny if she laid off the cake, but she wouldn't be 500 lbs either...

If we don't start making moves towards efficiency, we are screwed. We may not be able to get our costs lower than Mesa. With our pilot's seniority, we all know that won't happen, but we can be a lean operation. Who knows, if we run a good, efficient operation, we may get more flying, even if we are more expensive.

 

[maxcackel]

Why not make growth or new flying a stipulation of PBS? Set up the TA, then set up the software to practice like the mec said, the company bids on new flying with the cost savings in it, then if we win the flying we flip the switch to pbs. Everyone benefits, including our furloughed brothers. The way it is now if we don't get the flying only the company benefits. Now what is the argument with that?

 

[ASApuppy]

I'll sign on to PBS with the following condition:

CT re-retires and his illegitimate love child, SH resigns.

Bottom line, I do not trust these two any further than I can throw a locomotive. I believe there are ulterior motives in play here.

 

[Tarzan]

Why not make growth or new flying a stipulation of PBS? Set up the TA, then set up the software to practice like the mec said, the company bids on new flying with the cost savings in it, then if we win the flying we flip the switch to pbs. Everyone benefits, including our furloughed brothers. The way it is now if we don't get the flying only the company benefits. Now what is the argument with that?

Max,
I don't understand this bone you have to pick with PBS. If it is done right, we all benefit from it now. I don't see where this "soft pay" is being lost. You've gained on vacation, if you can afford to stretch it further, there are guys who want the extra work and will likely make up the additional trip you gone. Vacation really is not going to be an issue on this. If anything, we have achieved more credit for vacation than we had before. I have hard time buying into your idea although at least you are offering solutions. If I were a company head, I'd be remiss to pick a company that promised rates based on a trigger with something as important as how schedules are put together. That is the back bone of the airlines operating efficiently *sic*.

So far as the extra "soft pay", if and when we start to see higher net margins, think about what sort of Perf Plus check you've been seeing with 2% versus a 8-9% pay out. On top of that, the expectation is to average one additional day off a month.

 

[JumpersAway]

Max,
I don't understand this bone you have to pick with PBS. If it is done right, we all benefit from it now. I don't see where this "soft pay" is being lost. You've gained on vacation, if you can afford to stretch it further, there are guys who want the extra work and will likely make up the additional trip you gone. Vacation really is not going to be an issue on this. If anything, we have achieved more credit for vacation than we had before. I have hard time buying into your idea although at least you are offering solutions. If I were a company head, I'd be remiss to pick a company that promised rates based on a trigger with something as important as how schedules are put together. That is the back bone of the airlines operating efficiently *sic*.

So far as the extra "soft pay", if and when we start to see higher net margins, think about what sort of Perf Plus check you've been seeing with 2% versus a 8-9% pay out. On top of that, the expectation is to average one additional day off a month.

Shhhhh- Tarzan, you're making sense..........you're not allowed to do that here........

 

[CFI2766]

if you have a better idea, now would be the time to speak up.....

Here is my idea: once every six months every current pilot on the list at the company does a month of reserve. Everyone, from number 1 to the plug does a month on reserve. This includes management pilots, union officers, instructors, everyone. Two months a year on reserve for everyone at the company. This will lower costs, and, mix the lines up for everyone at the company. This is a win win.

This is fair and makes us much more competitive for new flying when it does become available in the (distant) future.

Any other regional doing this? Any objections?

 

[JoeMerchant]

Here is my idea: once every six months every current pilot on the list at the company does a month of reserve. Everyone, from number 1 to the plug does a month on reserve. This includes management pilots, union officers, instructors, everyone. Two months a year on reserve for everyone at the company. This will lower costs, and, mix the lines up for everyone at the company. This is a win win.

This is fair and makes us much more competitive for new flying when it does become available in the (distant) future.

Any other regional doing this? Any objections?

Why don't we just do away with the seniority system while were at it?

 

[SiuDude]

Why don't we just do away with the seniority system while were at it?

How about we put everyone at the company is on reserve 24/7/365?
And than we call "dibs" or "shotgun" when you see a trip you like in open time?

 

[ePilot22]

This is fair and makes us much more competitive for new flying when it does become available in the (distant) future.

Why does everything have to be fair? Life isn't fair.

Any other regional doing this? Any objections?

I believe Westjet has a system similar to this.







eP.

 

[regionalcap]

Here is my idea: once every six months every current pilot on the list at the company does a month of reserve. Everyone, from number 1 to the plug does a month on reserve. This includes management pilots, union officers, instructors, everyone. Two months a year on reserve for everyone at the company. This will lower costs, and, mix the lines up for everyone at the company. This is a win win.

This is fair and makes us much more competitive for new flying when it does become available in the (distant) future.

Any other regional doing this? Any objections?

Our flight attendants (up to about 20yrs) each get 3 reserve days on their schedules. So, everyone holds a line.

 

[regionalcap]

One thing that I noticed with PBS at our company is the number of days off. I was just looking at my category and the bottom line holders still got 17 days off. I never cared for the way that they built the lines at ASA. Wish you guys the best of luck and hope they will give you good software.

 

[maxcackel]

Max,
I don't understand this bone you have to pick with PBS. If it is done right, we all benefit from it now. I don't see where this "soft pay" is being lost. You've gained on vacation, if you can afford to stretch it further, there are guys who want the extra work and will likely make up the additional trip you gone. Vacation really is not going to be an issue on this. If anything, we have achieved more credit for vacation than we had before. I have hard time buying into your idea although at least you are offering solutions. If I were a company head, I'd be remiss to pick a company that promised rates based on a trigger with something as important as how schedules are put together. That is the back bone of the airlines operating efficiently *sic*.

So far as the extra "soft pay", if and when we start to see higher net margins, think about what sort of Perf Plus check you've been seeing with 2% versus a 8-9% pay out. On top of that, the expectation is to average one additional day off a month.

With all due respect I don't think you understand what pbs will due to you especially if we don't get additional flying. Unless you are in the top 30%. I've gained on vacation with pbs? I turn one week into at least 15-17 days off for 75hrs pay and have hit as high as 20 days. I am not sure if it will jump from 2 to 8-9%, that's a pretty high jump.

 

[duck_killer]

Where are the deets. And what in the h - e - double hockey sticks are they proposing to give to us in return for a HUGE QOL decrease. That's a big fat NO vote for me. Ask anyone in the lower 2/3's seniority at any carrier if PBS works for them.

I'm lower 2/3 and it works well for me.