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Asa pbs ta
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They did for Skywest getting United flying.
777forever
Well-known member
- Joined
- Dec 18, 2007
- Posts
- 1,535
DING DING DING!
SKW has very good work rules, implemented PBS and got a boatload of flying. The closer ASA gets to SKW in terms of cost(That's exactly what management is trying to do) the better future there will be for ASA. PBS was not even really a concession for them. Have you guys heard what the SKW guys get there bonus checks!?!?!?!? Wake up people!
The ding thing is wore out. But if this what you think you better change your screen name to FOForever.
777forever
Well-known member
- Joined
- Dec 18, 2007
- Posts
- 1,535
Yea if we maintain the status quo I will definitely be FOforever or Furloughedforever. Getting our costs and operations in line with Skywest will bring us growth, which in turn will bring us MORE money, and BETTER QOL. Remember, the more profit ASA makes, the bigger our bonus is. Gotta look at the big picture Max. If the pilot group remains stubborn ASA will rapidly become the next XJET,CMR, or EAGLE. But I have a feeling we have a lot of smart, long term interested, big picture looking pilots at ASA. Also, when the LOA comes out, I believe it will prove that the MEC did excellent work.
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WalterSobchak
Am I wrong?
- Joined
- Jan 24, 2007
- Posts
- 1,436
Oxymoron of the century?
xjet does not have pbs, don't know about cmr or eagle
I don't need or want status quo. If your so convinced it will bring growth then you should have no problem tying pbs to growth as a stipulation. Giving up pbs is a huge bargaining chip to just give up on the hope of growth. So your selling the company pbs for a couple hundred dollars a year, maybe only one hunred for an fo, in bonus money? We don't have the same bonus pay as skywest so stop looking at that. But upper managment bonus will for sure be bigger.
Comair has PBS.
Sure would like to know where this mystery growth is coming from.
That whole economy thing is still kind of a factor...
Good luck with that.
:erm:
I agree, no growth but I'm tired of people saying we have to have it or we won't grow. I am worried people will vote for it then bitch when nothing changes but our qol and our pay. And the small increase in bonus if we get it will not come close to the pay lost, especially on the ca pay scale.
I don't see much of anyone thinking we will get growth although there are a few. There is no guarantee of anything except that if our metric block is not reduced, we will not be able to compete against against the likes of Pinnacle or Freedom. I've seen the numbers before and we have a way to go to get there. If the number I've heard pitched bears fruit, with this measure alone, we even the playing field. None of the legacy bosses care about anything other than cost. That is the over riding factor. If we can keep our pay rates and rigs as well as QOL, why not get what we can and move forward?
Max, I guess you don't really see where the bonus thing can be significant. What has your bonus been at 2%? Do the math at 6 or 7% and tell me it will only be a hundred bucks. Tell me where you would be losing pay as a captain? I still don't see it. Give me something to beat on these guys about at the road show. Before the announce was made (about 3 weeks) a union make the quip that the only concessionary part about PBS was vacation and then you could still help yourself to some degree.
Max, I guess you don't really see where the bonus thing can be significant. What has your bonus been at 2%? Do the math at 6 or 7% and tell me it will only be a hundred bucks. Tell me where you would be losing pay as a captain? I still don't see it. Give me something to beat on these guys about at the road show. Before the announce was made (about 3 weeks) a union make the quip that the only concessionary part about PBS was vacation and then you could still help yourself to some degree.
JumpersAway
Cruise Bores Me.......
- Joined
- Nov 5, 2007
- Posts
- 1,222
Growth or no growth, the point is locking in our metric for securing our contract with big D. No metric, no contract, and no ASA. Delta (Northwest under a new name) cares about nothing else- the ground services bid process proves this. I completely understand, and agree, that this is not our burden to bear. However, we've got the option to assist management in doing this in exchange for a decent shot at some job security in an unsecure airline market. I'd have to say, that management seems to be trying to save money in all the right places first. However, they've got more work to do.
As one of the sharpest Captains I've flown with pointed out- the contract extension aids in providing a FIXED cost structure for the next several years here. Something that ASA needs to illustrate to anyone that is intrested in some feed from ASA. No one is going to lock into a contract with us if they don't see what's ahead as far as our costs are concerned. It's a massive selling point for us and the company.
As far as growth that's out there- hows this..... Apparently, JO has been in contact with Jerry Akins in an effort to secure financing/aircraft. The blood is in the water- it's only a matter of time. You might be on the way out if you're calling competitors for financial help..........
I sure would have loved to have heard how that conversation went!
As one of the sharpest Captains I've flown with pointed out- the contract extension aids in providing a FIXED cost structure for the next several years here. Something that ASA needs to illustrate to anyone that is intrested in some feed from ASA. No one is going to lock into a contract with us if they don't see what's ahead as far as our costs are concerned. It's a massive selling point for us and the company.
As far as growth that's out there- hows this..... Apparently, JO has been in contact with Jerry Akins in an effort to secure financing/aircraft. The blood is in the water- it's only a matter of time. You might be on the way out if you're calling competitors for financial help..........
I sure would have loved to have heard how that conversation went!
Tarzan, there are so many angles to look at not only pbs but like you bring up there is the Delta contract. Where does the lowering of the regional pilot's pay and benefits/qol end. What did you think several years ago when skywest agreed to be the second lowest priced regional next year? I was dumbfounded. But I think why did this happen? For sure it was an out for Delta if they wanted. But was it strong armed on Skywest or was it planned together to keep us in check? Know we have gotten use to the fact and we are willing to give up things to the company so we don't lose the contract and our jobs. Will Delta really dump us? If we just keep giving next it will be ASA has to be cheaper than Mesa or we lose our contract, guess we better get ready for that paycut. We will never know what happens behind closed doors at big D or St George but I bet we would be shocked. These companys are getting smarter at making money and doing it by making the employees do it for less. I believe we should get paid for what we do and paid well. I also believe for that we work our butts off to be the best airline product out there. Brad has given us the tools and motivation to be ontime, friendly costomer service people, and to save the company and Delta money anywhere we can. I do this everyday I work. I do not see the point in trying to keep up with the lowest cost airline, I know it looks like thats all Delta and othe majors want's but it can't go on forever or we will be working for Walmart wages and benefits. Wow tired posting may not be the best, oh well.
Max,
You keep harping on lost pay, benefits and QOL. Please tell me what where you are finding this. I simply don't see it. I've pointed out where I believe this may be a help to us all over time but you still say that only we are giving up pay. Please tell me where we'll take a pay cut. The SkyWest boys seem to be able to knock down huge credits over and they have a worse system than what we'll be on if it does pass. Just give me some specifics real or understood.
You keep harping on lost pay, benefits and QOL. Please tell me what where you are finding this. I simply don't see it. I've pointed out where I believe this may be a help to us all over time but you still say that only we are giving up pay. Please tell me where we'll take a pay cut. The SkyWest boys seem to be able to knock down huge credits over and they have a worse system than what we'll be on if it does pass. Just give me some specifics real or understood.
It's not about growth, it's about 20 airframes leaving early next year and what to do with them AND the xtra crews that fly them. You guys talk about the "brotherhood" and getting the furloughed pilots back. How do you think that's gonna happen?
As for the crying, how many people voted for the current contract and now are crying about it. Life is not perfect, it's give and take. If you don't want the possiblilty of the furloughs coming back and the possiblilty of keeping the 20 a/c flying next year then say it.
HoserASA
Well-known member
- Joined
- Apr 21, 2005
- Posts
- 666
This is a PAY CUT. Just some round numbers you will lose around 5 days off per week of vacation plus 2 days for training events per year. CAPT<7yrs = 12 days lost x 3.75min x $70. = $3150yr
CAPT>7yrs = 17 days lost x 3.75min x $85. = $5418yr
CAPT>15yr = 22 days lost x 3.75min x $100 = $8250yr
FO 4yr = 12 days lost x 3.75min x $40 = $1800yr
And don't forget the pay cut for all the open time you use to pick up to get that 95hr line will no longer exist. The crappy line pbs gives you is it for the month like it or not because there will be nothing to pick up or swap for due to pbs eliminating all the conflicting month to month, training and vacation drops. So if you get a 78hr line there is very little chance of making that a 90hr line equals a Pay Cut. Sure they will fix the open time rules, they don't care. But you are thinking about the new system with the amount of open time now, then the first time after pbs you jump in and are shocked that there is very little if any open time. The only way the company saves money is buy paying you less and working you more. How do people not see this?
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It also depends on how much you work each year. If you don't max your vacation and work as least as possible like some I know you won't see much of a pay cut. But if you are like me and most I know who max our vacation and try to max out our hours each month you will see a large pay cut unless you are in the top 30 percent. So If you took my schedule this year and divided the amount of days worked by total pay that number will be much lower after after pbs. That is were the pay cut will be seen.
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