Asa pbs ta

[BillJBrake]

I can't even imagine anything they could offer to make me vote in PBS. Just ask any CAL pilot about it.

Are the pilots at China Airlines really *THAT* vocal about their bidding system?

 

[buscap]

Shut the pie-holes and look at it when the LOA comes out.

If it's good for the company and me, I will vote yes.

If it's bad for me in any way I will vote no.

It's that simple.

But people!!!! Please pay attention on this one. It pretty much equates to a brand new contract.

As for me, I like the Flightline system over the Navtech, but it's more about the language and rules.

We need to be competitive, there is no doubt.

 

[WayBack]

I'm sure they just expect us to vote it in without anything in exchange. As a junior capt on reserve(and I don't expect to get off anytime soon), I don't expect to be excited about anything PBS has to offer.

You talking about management or your union "leadership"?....But I'd guess both would expect you to just vote on it to save the "Big Picture".

 

[IBNAV8R]

Go on. Deal Brad an ace. He'll take care of you. Ask any Skywest guy.

My biggest gripe with PBS is that it takes the onus of figuring out Company business, training and transition pairings away from the company and puts it on you. Now YOU have to bid around what THEY want and also make up for any inefficiencies that have been preassigned. I.e. You normally bid 22-hour 4-day trips on Mon-Thur. A training pairing might take up two days and pay 6 hours. Now you either have to request or bid for a training event on days you would normally bid off OR bid pairings on days you would normally have off to make up for the crappy pay value.

 

[av8rbama]

"[FONT=&quot]conceptual concepts"

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[Data]

Wow guys, how about waiting for the details before shooting it down?

 

[Cpt Oveur]

Ask any COA pilot and yeah they hate it. Ask any DAL pilot and they really like it. It depends on what we get. Lets wait for the details.

EXACTLY! The system DAL uses is completely different from the COA system, and neither is like the Pinnacle or Comair system. Let the information from the company and union come in and explain what the ASA system will be.

A wise pilot on another forum has already posted to not listen to "experts" from other companies or other pilots because their systems are very different.

Let the information come in, give the union a chance to really educate the pilot group, and make an informed decision when the time comes.

 

[samballs]

Ask any COA pilot and yeah they hate it. Ask any DAL pilot and they really like it. It depends on what we get. Lets wait for the details.

Do DAL pilots complain about anything? they have been trained to like what mang shoves up the brown hole

 

[samballs]

EXACTLY! The system DAL uses is completely different from the COA system, and neither is like the Pinnacle or Comair system. Let the information from the company and union come in and explain what the ASA system will be.

A wise pilot on another forum has already posted to not listen to "experts" from other companies or other pilots because their systems are very different.

Let the information come in, give the union a chance to really educate the pilot group, and make an informed decision when the time comes.

SO every DCi carrier has a bad PBS . I'm sure they'll give you guys a good PBS so you can say you have the best PBS in DCI, get real it won't be any better or they would not offer it

 

[samballs]

They can adjusy trips, they will make it so that what ever you bid falls into what they like. its really great when you have vacation and you still get min days off

 

[SLUF4]

So which vendor does DAL use if it's so good?

 

[USCtrojan]

Unfortunately, because all of the other Competitors in the "Regional" category is why ASA has to have it. Fortunately, it appears we are getting it at ASA with our input and it's not being forced upon us. If every other DCI Carrier and otherwise did not have it, we wouldn't. So don't look to ASA to hold the line, we did until EVERYONE ELSE caved. I look forward to the information the Union is putting out. It does appear pretty efficient while adding a QOL increase. Additionally, if this is the way the Company must reduce costs, I welcome it over a deep paycut. That will be next if PBS isn't implemented.

SkyWest Pilots....I would assume you will have Flightline or Navtech very soon for your PBS systems. I'd bet money on Flightline, but AOS isn't even being considered at this point. My guess is the software is much cheaper on a volume basis, so it's all but guaranteed you'll have it.

Trojan

 

[zawillif]

They can adjusy trips, they will make it so that what ever you bid falls into what they like. its really great when you have vacation and you still get min days off

To be honest with you that is the only argument against PBS that I've heard. I've been hearing it for two full years now. It takes away your vacation, it takes away your vacation--that is the ONLY argument I've heard. That and senior guys get everything and junior guys get hosed. Like that is any different from anything else in the seniority system.

I'm still not for or against it. I'm still waiting to see the details about it to make up my mind. But you guys talk about line bidding like its the can't fail-no hassel-best system in the world. With our current system it takes me 2 hours minimum to bid every single month. In this bid packet there are 8 commutable lines. Now I have to pick through the other 150 or so to try and make my schedule not suck as much as possible. Bottom line: I'm open to other possibilities, and if it's going to help me I'll vote for it, if not I won't.

 

[samballs]

To be honest with you that is the only argument against PBS that I've heard. I've been hearing it for two full years now. It takes away your vacation, it takes away your vacation--that is the ONLY argument I've heard. That and senior guys get everything and junior guys get hosed. Like that is any different from anything else in the seniority system.

I'm still not for or against it. I'm still waiting to see the details about it to make up my mind. But you guys talk about line bidding like its the can't fail-no hassel-best system in the world. With our current system it takes me 2 hours minimum to bid every single month. In this bid packet there are 8 commutable lines. Now I have to pick through the other 150 or so to try and make my schedule not suck as much as possible. Bottom line: I'm open to other possibilities, and if it's going to help me I'll vote for it, if not I won't.

I actually like PBS over hard lines, I was trying to say that your days off are going to go down

 

[Abernathy]

Do DAL pilots complain about anything? they have been trained to like what mang shoves up the brown hole

It's usually the Atlanta-based FOs who were former commuter pilots that seem to get all gung ho.

 

[Tarzan]

I actually like PBS over hard lines, I was trying to say that your days off are going to go down

Not always the case. There have been some comments made by the guys working on it that if it gets through the way they have worked out, the only concessionary part will be vacation. Even then, they've admitted there will likely be ways to stretch that out as well. We can attack in the next contract if enough guys are unhappy with it. So far as pay goes, if the company ends up with higher profit margins, we reap the rewards. I've heard a few guys griping about how low they have been but if we get back up to the OO groups margin, we'll see a nice bonus. If the unions claimed numbers hold up over the stuff SH is peddling, we will be right there minus a couple of million.

If it becomes more efficient to run three day trips that 7.5 hours a piece, so be it. Since I don't commute, I'd rather come in, work hard and go home for four days.

 

[bigshooter107]

Not gona help the the guys on the street get back anytime soon. What are we getting in return? Both SH and CT have said it absolutly would not help our block our cost in the current enviroment.

 

[thesource]

From what I read it says a 1 percent pay raise and the ability to either maximize pay or vacation time during vacation months. Along with some other things.

 

[Freebrd]

SO every DCi carrier has a bad PBS . I'm sure they'll give you guys a good PBS so you can say you have the best PBS in DCI, get real it won't be any better or they would not offer it

we're ASA and all your boards belong to us incl the best PBS

 

[Tarzan]

Not gona help the the guys on the street get back anytime soon. What are we getting in return? Both SH and CT have said it absolutly would not help our block our cost in the current enviroment.

They are right. I will not help our block costs currently. It is not going to help in the immediate scheme of bring back our guys on the street. What it will do, is help us down the road possibly securing more flying because ASA will be able to bid at a lower rate. So in a sense, if we are able to get more flying in the near future, it will help our block cost and get our guys back on the flight deck. It will not be overnight. However, once we start to see returns, the margin increases and you wind up with an extra $4K a year that you didn't have before.

We have to take much of this with a grain of salt. The company spent an enormous amount of money getting the A-Tech up and running as well looking for programs to cut or fix. None of these are immediate money savers. They cost money but the returns down the road will eventually pay for the hard choices today. Fortunately, the company leadership (BH) is trying to formulate a plan that has us in a good position 1-5 years down the road. There are others that only care about the next three months. I have to give BH the benefit of the doubt for now until he proves otherwise.