ASA PBS Passes

[LazyLightnin']

That's an apples to oranges comparison on both those arguments. The issue is working the same amount or more to make guarantee. Not how neat your vacation is or if you got off reserve. Pathetic attempts. Try again.

 

[crj567]

Im making on good months $1000 more under PBS than I would have made with line bidding due to being able to hold a line vs reserve. Wallow in your own misery cackel, cuz its a party on my side of the fence!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thoroughly pathetic.

 

[johnpeace]

Thoroughly pathetic.

Hang on...why?

This pilot is doing better with his schedule and pay than he was before PBS. He talks about it here and it's 'pathetic'.

Please explain.

 

[Nevets]

From what I have heard, at Xpress Jet, their bids come out a different time every month, and I am guessing the awards date is a moving target also? Is that true?

The bid results are scheduled to come out around the 10th of the month. Its usually within a day of the 10th. It is very rarely changed after it was published unless something major got screwed up. I know its happened a few times but I can't remember the last time that has happened in the last 5 years. They always close at 0700 CT and are usually posted within a couple of hours afterwords.

I'm actually making more with PBS. Now when I stretch 1 week of vacation into 5 weeks I still make 75 hours...under the old system I was getting hit with MMG and losing 20-25 hours. I love PBS...

Oh no! We are not going to be cost competitive now! Your lack of efficiency is going to bring this company down now that everyone can do that with this new PBS!!!

Im making on good months $1000 more under PBS than I would have made with line bidding due to being able to hold a line vs reserve. Wallow in your own misery cackel, cuz its a party on my side of the fence!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The other side of the coin is the senior FO who is going to have to wait longer for his 40% pay raise because now the captains are that much more efficient that they don't need as many reserves.

 

[LazyLightnin']

Fresh off reserve FO's are like rescued greyhounds. No matter what you feed them or how bad you beat the hell outta them, they're just happy to have a home... and a line.

 

[Plainsman]

That is a great analogy.

 

[bigshooter107]

Fresh off reserve FO's are like rescued greyhounds. No matter what you feed them or how bad you beat the hell outta them, they're just happy to have a home... and a line.

Best qoute of the year.

 

[Abernathy]

The other side of the coin is the senior FO who is going to have to wait longer for his 40% pay raise because now the captains are that much more efficient that they don't need as many reserves.

Exactly. But he doesn't get it. As if upgrade wasn't going to take long enough, he's now going to have to wait 10-15% longer than he otherwise would have.

 

[JumpersAway]

The upgrade argument doesn't really hold water. Things are stagnant, less a few random batches, until age 65 clears the backlog of geezers. When things break loose, it will break loose in a HUGE way, and that's when the upgrades will start happening in notable quantities. Until then, we're just stuck in our seats, PBS or no PBS. The "10-15% longer" will equate to a few months, at that point.

 

[resetjet]

The upgrade argument doesn't really hold water. Things are stagnant, less a few random batches, until age 65 clears the backlog of geezers. When things break loose, it will break loose in a HUGE way, and that's when the upgrades will start happening in notable quantities. Until then, we're just stuck in our seats, PBS or no PBS. The "10-15% longer" will equate to a few months, at that point.

Glad someone gets it

 

[Flybywire44]

The bid results are scheduled to come out around the 10th of the month. Its usually within a day of the 10th. It is very rarely changed after it was published unless something major got screwed up. I know its happened a few times but I can't remember the last time that has happened in the last 5 years. They always close at 0700 CT and are usually posted within a couple of hours afterwords.



Oh no! We are not going to be cost competitive now! Your lack of efficiency is going to bring this company down now that everyone can do that with this new PBS!!!



The other side of the coin is the senior FO who is going to have to wait longer for his 40% pay raise because now the captains are that much more efficient that they don't need as many reserves.

Regarding your last paragraph, this is exactly why I voted no for PBS. I lot more people should have upgraded a long time ago. ASA is pushing the staffing model to the limits under PBS.

I'd be curious to see how much money we've lost on incompletion versus saved in understaffing.

 

[Nevets]

The upgrade argument doesn't really hold water. Things are stagnant, less a few random batches, until age 65 clears the backlog of geezers. When things break loose, it will break loose in a HUGE way, and that's when the upgrades will start happening in notable quantities. Until then, we're just stuck in our seats, PBS or no PBS. The "10-15% longer" will equate to a few months, at that point.

How many are you upgrading now? 36? I'm sure there would have been more if it wasn't for PBS. But why marry yourself to some optimistic future? Isn't that what pilots always do? Give something up now for something in the future? Only for a gulf war, 9/11, Iraq, SARS, recession, high oil prices, Libya, etc etc to happen and none of it to pan out! And even if it amounts to 3-4 months, that is that much longer to get qualifications to go to a mainline and that much longer to get a seniority number and therefor that much more likely to get furloughed/downgraded when the next crisis hits. Or what about when things slow down again and the upgrades are only trickling again? Even your optimistic future pans out, it won't always be full steam ahead, 3-4 months difference!

 

[pipers]

Have fun. Did you see what happened to SkyWest's tonight? All bid retracted for a do-over.

 

[JumpersAway]

How many are you upgrading now? 36? I'm sure there would have been more if it wasn't for PBS. But why marry yourself to some optimistic future? Isn't that what pilots always do? Give something up now for something in the future? Only for a gulf war, 9/11, Iraq, SARS, recession, high oil prices, Libya, etc etc to happen and none of it to pan out! And even if it amounts to 3-4 months, that is that much longer to get qualifications to go to a mainline and that much longer to get a seniority number and therefor that much more likely to get furloughed/downgraded when the next crisis hits. Or what about when things slow down again and the upgrades are only trickling again? Even your optimistic future pans out, it won't always be full steam ahead, 3-4 months difference!

Nevets- I'm already a Captain, so my "future" is now. I do appreciate the concern though. Just seems like you are pretty set on the pessimistic side of things, and no amount of factual information is going to point you to informed logic. There will be a huge amount of retirements and attrition, no matter how you approach the future.

It would have been nice if you were this bold BEFORE the merger went full speed ahead. There was ample time to back out by forcing the three way merge. It wasn't taken. Why the change in tune?

I have no qualms with PBS. The system works fine for myself, and many others. However, it's the trip construction I have issues with. PBS or no PBS will not fix this particular issue. Trip rigs, and other contractual agreements will.

 

[Stifler's Mom]

Happy with my April schedule.

You can add me to the list that supports PBS so far.

 

[Thebadcat1313]

happy with my april schedule.

You can add me to the list that supports pbs so far.

+1....

 

[Plainsman]

PBS is a better way to bid, but the company holds a better hand when building trips. Take that away from them and I am on board. You guys are too happy with this junk. Got off reserve? Happy for you, but they are doing some shaddy things at both alpa and the company, just keep your eyes open. I could have sworn hearing once we voted in PBS we were going to grow like kudzu. How's that going?

 

[79%N1]

There will be no growth at ASA, now or possibly ever! The demise of the 50 in coming years will be matched with the coming pilot shortage/hiring requirements to "right size" all regionals. Expect more 2 for 1 trades or simply retiring aircraft as staffing dictates, rather than increasing staffing. This is also the reason XJT was acquired and probably another airline in the future. Mark my words. ASA/XJT will not have 4000+ pilots and 400 50 seaters in the next 3-5 years. More like half of that or less.

 

[johnpeace]

Mark my words. ASA/XJT will not have 4000+ pilots and 400 50 seaters in the next 3-5 years. More like half of that or less.

Fun! It used to be that you could work at a regional and then look forward to years on reserve at a major...now it's just perma-reserve at ASA.

 

[Plainsman]

There will be no growth at ASA, now or possibly ever! The demise of the 50 in coming years will be matched with the coming pilot shortage/hiring requirements to "right size" all regionals. Expect more 2 for 1 trades or simply retiring aircraft as staffing dictates, rather than increasing staffing. This is also the reason XJT was acquired and probably another airline in the future. Mark my words. ASA/XJT will not have 4000+ pilots and 400 50 seaters in the next 3-5 years. More like half of that or less.

Good post. If they come again at us with "we need to be cheaper", we need to get one list with skywest. That will make us cheaper while protecting pilots on all sides. We said we would visit pbs last contract, now we have it, so lets visit one list with skywest.

 

[Nevets]

Nevets- I'm already a Captain, so my "future" is now. I do appreciate the concern though. Just seems like you are pretty set on the pessimistic side of things, and no amount of factual information is going to point you to informed logic. There will be a huge amount of retirements and attrition, no matter how you approach the future.

It would have been nice if you were this bold BEFORE the merger went full speed ahead. There was ample time to back out by forcing the three way merge. It wasn't taken. Why the change in tune?

I have no qualms with PBS. The system works fine for myself, and many others. However, it's the trip construction I have issues with. PBS or no PBS will not fix this particular issue. Trip rigs, and other contractual agreements will.

If you knew who I was you would know that I was a HUGE vocal proponent of one list and I still am. I was on the MEC the first time around when we told ja and br to pound sand and if would have been on it this time around I would have voted no again!

I'm not trying to be pessimistic just realistic. Fact is no one knows what is going to happen. Did you knew that MEM was going to see less ASA flying for example? The fact is that PBS will make it that much longer to upgrade, even of it is only 3 months.

I'm glad it works for your future now mr captain.

Good post. If they come again at us with "we need to be cheaper", we need to get one list with skywest. That will make us cheaper while protecting pilots on all sides. We said we would visit pbs last contract, now we have it, so lets visit one list with skywest.

Come at us again?!!! They constantly come at us again and again and again with that crap! If they want to save money, then they need to merge all three airlines and get rid of all the duplicate positions such as COO and VP of Flight Ops, etc! ALL the reasons that br spelled out that make the ASA/XJT merger a good idea are the same EXACT reasons why merging all three airlines is a good idea. Until then, they can go pound sand every time they come at us!

 

[johnpeace]

Working the pilot groups against each other probably has more potential to keep costs down than duplicating redundant MGMT/operations positions, doesn't it?

 

[Nevets]

Working the pilot groups against each other probably has more potential to keep costs down than duplicating redundant MGMT/operations positions, doesn't it?

Of course! Otherwise they wouldn't be running us separate. What I'm saying is that if they want to play that game, they can go pound sand when they cry poor. In other words, stop coming to us for financial help when you have two sets if everything running two separate airlines.

 

[damnflyboy]

Good post. If they come again at us with "we need to be cheaper", we need to get one list with skywest. That will make us cheaper while protecting pilots on all sides. We said we would visit pbs last contract, now we have it, so lets visit one list with skywest.

If that ever does happen, there will be an aggressive attempt to staple us beneath SkyWest.

 

[JumpersAway]

If you knew who I was you would know that I was a HUGE vocal proponent of one list and I still am. I was on the MEC the first time around when we told ja and br to pound sand and if would have been on it this time around I would have voted no again!

I'm not trying to be pessimistic just realistic. Fact is no one knows what is going to happen. Did you knew that MEM was going to see less ASA flying for example? The fact is that PBS will make it that much longer to upgrade, even of it is only 3 months.

I'm glad it works for your future now mr captain.



Come at us again?!!! They constantly come at us again and again and again with that crap! If they want to save money, then they need to merge all three airlines and get rid of all the duplicate positions such as COO and VP of Flight Ops, etc! ALL the reasons that br spelled out that make the ASA/XJT merger a good idea are the same EXACT reasons why merging all three airlines is a good idea. Until then, they can go pound sand every time they come at us!

Apparently you've done such a good job you haven't been elected by your peers to go back..............just an observation. You seem to be quite the self elected authority though, I'll give you that!

 

[Nevets]

Apparently you've done such a good job you haven't been elected by your peers to go back..............just an observation. You seem to be quite the self elected authority though, I'll give you that!

I haven't run for anything since then. Any other personal attacks?

 

[Oakum_Boy]

Expessjet pilots, please do not vote in a contract with PBS. What hearingnot hearing is all the people who are still asking WTF just happened. All you're hearing is from the guys getting of reserve or those with vaca. The rest are scratching their heads. It sucks, and I'm in the top 10 percent.

 

[goahead]

I don't think it's that bad, you get what you bid.

 

[Oakum_Boy]

Not really. If that were the case we'dall be working three day trips with weekends off. Nice try. And don't forget all the three days have to be accompanied by a day line or two day to get the credit up. Just because suddenly you have commutable four days doesn't mean someone else isn't getting hosed with the junk pairings which are the new norm. Make no mistake, this lowers everyone's qol. I've never worked so much just to get 20 hrs per week in my 12+ year career.

 

[the palm]

Expessjet pilots, please do not vote in a contract with PBS. What hearingnot hearing is all the people who are still asking WTF just happened. All you're hearing is from the guys getting of reserve or those with vaca. The rest are scratching their heads. It sucks, and I'm in the top 10 percent.

If you are in the top 10% and hating life then you are doing something wrong. I'm in the middle and loving my commutable 4 day trips with weekends off. Never held a schedule this good under line bidding.