ASA Negotiations grind to a halt (again)! ASA management out of touch with reality!

[VeeOne]

I agree with fins. Scope is my number 1 remaining issue. We have the scheduling/reserve/ and many of our QOL shortcomings addressed in TA'd sections. I can't see 700 pay coming up. 200 pay needs to match Skywest & Comair, and we need the Skywest bonus plan. I also don't see full retro as a possibility. But, Scope has got to be addressed, and what the Co. is proposing is laughable at best.

I agree with you.

Fins- well said above.

 

[Exskydiverdrivr]

A little flexing of muscle (or sabre rattling ) may be in order. Corporate america needs to be reminded of 17th century France. Let the revolution begin!

OK now for some coffee....

Best of luck to the ASA guys.

 

[Tomct]

Time to SHUT R DOWN!!! I could USE some days off!!!

 

[Freebrd]

Time to SHUT R DOWN!!! I could USE some days off!!!

After spending HOURS trying to make sense out of Feb lines, I'll be damned if I do ASA any favors!

 

[Morning Wood]

A contract that is 4+ years expired, their latest offer doesn't give a raise to the CR7 pilots....and they have the nerve to ask me to help out with the open time trips.

Crew scheduling doesn't have anything to do with your contract. What do you want them to do? Just cancel stuff or try to cover it first?

 

[Morning Wood]

Sorry you guys got royally hosed by the SKYW pilots voting in the latest pay deal. Now SGU doesn't want to give you what you're worth because you'd come out on top of the hometown crowd.

So which is it jerkweed? You're constantly talking about how SkyWest pilots are whores and talking about their low wages. Now you claim by getting more money they somehow screwed the ASA pilots? What was going on with negotiations the years before SkyWest bought ASA?

 

[Stifler's Mom]

Crew scheduling doesn't have anything to do with your contract. What do you want them to do? Just cancel stuff or try to cover it first?

They can ask all they want, but I will not help out by picking up trips for them. My frustration lies with the company not properly staffing the airline, not scheduling trying to do their jobs. Try and cover the trips, and when you realize you don't have a large enough pool of pilots, then cancel trips.

How about hold the person in charge of staffing levels accountable, instead of asking the frontline employees to cover your mistakes?

 

[atlcrjdriver]

Some would call it helping the company I call it helping myself to extra cash. If the trips aren't picked up in open time then some poor slob will be extended anyway.

 

[Stifler's Mom]

Scheduling extends people one rountrip at a time, not a whole trip at a time.

Plus, with most of us blocked in the 90s next month, there won't be much picking up of trips anyway.

 

[ASADriver]

I just picked up a 13 hour 2day that will pay me 19.5 hours which will put me over 105 hours for the month. I helped myself out and nobody had to be drafted for the trip - it's a win/win for everyone. You hardcore ALPA types can lecture all day long, but most of us will continue to pick up the time and a half open time.

 

[embdrvr]

So which is it jerkweed? You're constantly talking about how SkyWest pilots are whores and talking about their low wages. Now you claim by getting more money they somehow screwed the ASA pilots? What was going on with negotiations the years before SkyWest bought ASA?

Maybe you should stick to something you know something about.
SkyWest pilots are still making less than they did 7 years ago.
No raise for the turboprop pilots so I don't know WTF you're talking about when you say they got more money.

1% for the CRJ-200 - That doesn't do much to get pilots caught up with inflation or to partly compensate for the concessions taken.

A tiny override for up to 99 seats that only applies to block hours flown in that airframe.

Total value of package is about the same as the 1.5% across the board raise that was passed up a year ago.

NO COLA raises opon approval or anytime in the next 4 years

No QOL or work rule improvements. Recent penstroke policy changes are worsening compensation

900 rates below Mesa

18 month TA was expired for over 2 years but not a dime of retro.

And the only reason they even got a raise offered is the union drive was starting up.

Now how does this effect ASA pilots? Quite simple. By approving the recent pay deal and insuring that SKYW pilots remain below Express Jet, Comair and Horizon wage growth for ASA pilots is also inhibited. The ASA 50 seat rates could remain below SkyWest and there will be pressure to adopt a single rate with tiny overrides. PBS will undoubtedly be a negotiating chip since it saves SGU a ton of money.

 

[Morning Wood]

They can ask all they want, but I will not help out by picking up trips for them. My frustration lies with the company not properly staffing the airline, not scheduling trying to do their jobs. Try and cover the trips, and when you realize you don't have a large enough pool of pilots, then cancel trips.

How about hold the person in charge of staffing levels accountable, instead of asking the frontline employees to cover your mistakes?

Then who were you referring to having the nerve to ask you to pick up open time?

On a side note, how many of your guys have taken the recall at Delta or United? How many have you lost to Jet Blue or Southwest in the last 6 months?

 

[Morning Wood]

Maybe you should stick to something you know something about.

SkyWest pilots are still making less than they did 7 years ago.

Really? How many paycuts have SkyWest’s pilots taken? Zero. How many have Northwest, United, and Delta taken? How much less are they making compared to 7 years ago? How much is Comair being asked to give up?

No raise for the turboprop pilots so I don't know WTF you're talking about when you say they got more money.

I never said the turboprop pilots got more money. They got screwed, but their pay doesn’t really have much to do with the ASA 200 and 700 rates. That would be like saying ASA’s ATR rates have some bearing on SkyWest’s 200 and 700 rates.

1% for the CRJ-200 - That doesn't do much to get pilots caught up with inflation or to partly compensate for the concessions taken.

The ASA 50 seat rates could remain below SkyWest

The 1% still keeps them higher than ASA’s 200 rates, as you yourself said.

 

[Stifler's Mom]

Then who were you referring to having the nerve to ask you to pick up open time?

On a side note, how many of your guys have taken the recall at Delta or United? How many have you lost to Jet Blue or Southwest in the last 6 months?

Management was who I was referring to. Scheduling may have sent out the memo, but at 150% pay, it was surely OK'd by the GO.

Not sure about our turnover. I'm sure somebody can answer that for you. But, enough that after displacing 15-20 Captains a few months ago, we are now upgrading close to 70. That "shot across the bow" ended up being them shooting themselves in the foot.

 

[SSDD]

I have asked this before without results, I'm not being fasticious: How does a regional feeder who is basically a contractor, not a full blown airline, get scope?

Thanks

 

[AMANSWORLD]

It is time for the pilot group to take a walk. Screw ASA and Skywest, these management groups suck and only deserve the worst.

 

[DrunkIrishman]

SSDD-

We can only achieve intracompany scope. It is impossible to get otherwise with what you do not control. The flying ASA does belongs to Delta, period.

 

[601Pilot]

I just picked up a 13 hour 2day that will pay me 19.5 hours which will put me over 105 hours for the month. I helped myself out and nobody had to be drafted for the trip - it's a win/win for everyone. You hardcore ALPA types can lecture all day long, but most of us will continue to pick up the time and a half open time.

And, that sir, is why you are a dou-che! At least we should be able to smell you around the crew lounge.

 

[Airboss]

And, that sir, is why you are a dou-che! At least we should be able to smell you around the crew lounge.

We all want another fair contract....but we all dont know each others financial status. I'm glad that there are people put there to pick up these trips so I dont get JR manned.
Just remember ANYTIME a delta pilot picks up a trip on their off day its at time and a half. Maybe this should be the normal..just like overtime!

 

[ASA Captain]

Myopic Vision

No one wants to be extended when they are ready to go home. No one likes to pick up their phone and hear scheduling on the other end (remember that you don't have to pick up your phone if you don't know the number).

By picking up the open time hand job, you are adding some pocket change to your pocket. Nice going. Enjoy your extra latte. (I am an addict too)

While we all wait for a pay raise that won't even meet inflation you give yourself a tiny TEMPORARY pay raise. Don't believe me, do the math. Averaged out over the month the money isn't as impressive as you think.

Or, you could help out and secure RETRO and the overdue pay raise we have all been doing our jobs for.

I know most of the trips will get covered. It will suck for those who get extended. But the company will run out of pilots and have to cancel trips. Then they might just be held accountable for the staffing fiasco instead of getting a slap on the back and an atta boy when all the trips are covered by underpaid desperate pilots.

Don't think it will make a difference? We will only know if you make the little sacrifice now.

It is time. The company desperately needs our cooperation. It is time. We have been good little boys and girls, doing our jobs and even going the extra mile for our passengers our our company. We need to do something for ourselves.

 

[FightingIrish]

So let me get this straight. ALPA can't get get the contract settled, it all boils down to the membership not picking up open time to get it settled. IF that is is true, then I guess the Skywest pilots don't really need ALPA, because they can just stop picking up open time and they will magically get a payraise.

 

[ASA Captain]

ID10T

I was talking about unity. ALPA is nothing without it.

 

[FightingIrish]

ID10T

I was talking about unity. ALPA is nothing without it.

When then looking around, I would say that ALPA is nothing because I don't really see much unity. Here is a question for you, could a unified pilot group achieve something without ALPA? Is it unity, or is it ALPA that we need?

 

[Stifler's Mom]

Irish,

WTF are you rambling on about? You must be trying to make some sort of a point, but I don't see it. Care to elaborate?

 

[PCL_128]

When then looking around, I would say that ALPA is nothing because I don't really see much unity.

Not much unity? Take a look at the election results from your recent LEC elections. Seems to me that the pilot group demonstrated perfect unity with a resounding vote of confidence in the leadership team. The only people not unified are the very few rouges like yourself and Johnny B.

 

[ASA Captain]

Actually Irish, its both.

Unity is nothing without someone to represent all the pilots in direct negotiations. An elected representative is nothing without the support and unity of those they work for.

I don't think this thread was about SKW, so I won't even go there.

Unfortunately, management lawsuits (I thought only democrats used trial lawyers) have succeeded in castrating union leaders. AMR sick out, DAL open time, and CMR outstation MX lawsuits put union leaders on the defensive and pilots running scared.

It is up to the pilots to decide when they have had enough.

I have had enough.

 

[SSDD]

SSDD-

We can only achieve intracompany scope. It is impossible to get otherwise with what you do not control. The flying ASA does belongs to Delta, period.

What is intracompany scope? What does that mean?

 

[ohplease!]

Really? How many paycuts have SkyWest’s pilots taken? Zero. How many have Northwest, United, and Delta taken? How much less are they making compared to 7 years ago? How much is Comair being asked to give up?

Actually, Skywest has taken a paycut each and EVERY year they didn't get atleast a COLA of about 3% or so.

So, looks like about 21% over 7 years, oops...I forgot about the 1%...20% over 7 years. Not too far from the paycut all those legacy carriers you mention took. Oh yeah, they started out making much, MUCH more than Skywest.

 

[SSDD]

Actually, Skywest has taken a paycut each and EVERY year they didn't get atleast a COLA of about 3% or so.

So, looks like about 21% over 7 years, oops...I forgot about the 1%...20% over 7 years. Not too far from the paycut all those legacy carriers you mention took. Oh yeah, they started out making much, MUCH more than Skywest.

Actually that's not quite true. Only the very senior people have not gotten raises(me). Everyone with less than 16 years of service has been getting their regular raises.

And again, let's remember that the 50 seat rates are higher than ASA's.

But I still VOTED NO!

 

[~~~^~~~]

I have asked this before without results, I'm not being fasticious: How does a regional feeder who is basically a contractor, not a full blown airline, get scope?

Thanks

The best option is a merger. The next best option is scope within the brand. Since ALPA is not going to help us with either of the best solutions you can follow Comair's lead and obtain penalties if the Company does not maintain a certain fleet size or block hours.

Skywest negotiated "scope" for ASA when they did a deal with Delta requiring that a certain percentage of block hours would be flown by ASA. ALPA could certainly forge a similar deal with Skywest. Flip, ALPA could use their power as bargaining agent to take flying from SkyWest under the holdings umbrella (not likely to happen, but legally it is possible).

As long as the 5 elements of a contract are met, pilots and management can agree to about anything.

Oddly -ALPA is not at all excited about small jet pilots having scope. The powers that be in the union are taking $150 million dollar negotiating credits for RFP bidding - they don't want to see the regional flying come up to a professional standard of compensation. ALPA's primary interest in "industry leading" at small jet providers is to enable transfer of flying back to the majors which actually have lower rates on the same, or similar equipment. Small jet Scope would only screw up the transfer of flying that they hope will happen.

So to answer your question BEATS ME. I don't know how a small jet carrier gets scope without the representation of the national union.

PCL - Rez - someone edumacate me....