ASA Negotiations grind to a halt (again)! ASA management out of touch with reality!

[PCL_128]

I am a pro union guy but I have a question on this latest counter proposal. The union wants CB plus 11.5% on the 50 seater for captains. Last May the union wanted CB plus 11.75%. Now, for the F/0 on the 50 seater the union wants 10.75%. Last May, it was CB plus 10.5%. Why did the union raise the offer for the first officers? It doesn't look like the union budged on pay. What are your thoughts on a fair amount that both sides should come to?

Why should they budge at all? Remember, this contract has been amendable for over four years now. That's four years of inflation working against the payrates. Take a look at this:

3-year FO Rate in current book: $35/hr
What rate should be if adjusted for inflation: $39
What rate would be if the company accepted the 10.75% raise: $38.75

As you can see, even if the Association received exactly what they are currently asking for, it would still be a paycut when adjusted for inflation. Why on Earth would you think they should give more ground?

 

[ASARJMan]

Should have voted for the LJ Coalition.

Tle loser returns! How about those voting results superpoop! Guess you don't know this pilot group like you think you do. Now go do your job that your scab daddy got for you!

STRIKE This Airline Now!
Enough is Enough!

 

[scott hall]

I think 2.8% for CR2 Captains is more than enough! Add in performance plus and you get about an extra $150 a month on average. After all we only make about 200 million a year in profit. It's all about being competative guys! A 10% raise would put you up there with Express Jet and 8% with CHQ, we need to stay near the bottem, stock prices matter more than pilot pay!

 

[~~~^~~~]

Wow, those wages at CHQ are just killin' them. What, they just got the Frontier deal, not SkyWest? What gives. Could there be more to this than fifty cents an hour for the Pilot?

What about 90 rates? Are we negotiating a combined 70/90 rate?
Also, what about scope?

It is truly a shame ALPA National doesn't want one list. Putz. I say what the heck, toss one list with same pay rates on the table and see what happens.

 

[Palerider957]

There is actually a procedure for pushing without headsets now. Having said that, in Atlanta, I don't think it's safe and I won't do it.

Wow, the POI must have had mercy on poor-stupid-ASA managment. I agree about not pushing without headsets.

 

[Medeco]

Wow, the POI must have had mercy on poor-stupid-ASA managment. I agree about not pushing without headsets.

Last time I checked the captain shall coordinate with the pushback driver prior to pushing without headsets, am I wrong?

Medeco

 

[GearUpLightsIn]

why should mgmt be in a hurry now to move with the contract? They have probably known all week that we didn't get the Frontier flying. We got squat going for us, so why push to get things done? I am not bitter... really.

 

[Oakum_Boy]

YOU KNOW there are too many redneck goobers salivating at the time-and-a-half prospect. They'll tell their friends real proud like that they're makin' $130 an hour.

 

[DCT MYS]

Yet, based on Betty's company email she recieved an overwhelming positive reponse to the opentime.

Good timing for the company to post the majority of opentime the day prior to us getting ticked off again.

Geez!!!


Medeco

The summer from hell (2000) worked pretty good for the United pilots when trying to get their contract finished up. They refused to fly open time and it cost UAL plenty and they got at fat contract out of it for a short time.

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

I DO think ASA mgmt, as well as Pinnacle, Mesaba, Comair, etc. are WAY out of touch with reality. Have they been talking to their recruiters and training department to see what the numbers and experience levels of the pilots they are getting?

I don't think they realize how bad the pilot shortage is at the low end. And, doing these contracts, they don't realize that every 6 months, it just gets worse and worse for them. The new pilot starts (student pilots) according to the FAA, are down 50% over the last 5 years! Couple that with less and less military pilots being trained, and the fact that more and more aircraft are flying, where do these regional managers think they're going to get guys with these low pay rates?

Clueless!

cliff
GRB

 

[ACL65PILOT]

First, the union has moved on the 70 rates. If you look at the update that was e-mailed to you after they finished negotiations, it shows that. We started out at 120 an hr for the 18 year 70 guys and now it is somewhere near 106 an hr. That is a lot of movement on out part. We have even moved down from what we were asking this summer. It was in the ball park of 110 an hr. We as a union have moved. The company as barley budged. I agree with many of the above posts. The company does not have the desire to get this done for one reason. They do not feel that this pilot group that the balls to go on strike. Just ask them. Heck it has been four frickin years. I do think that they are mistaken. I have not flown with one person that is not sick of all of the BS.
It looks like we lost that Frontier flying. Oh well. They cannot use the cost issue anymore. Offering a 50% override for open time pick ups proves that it is not a money issue. If it was they would have hired a long time ago. They are playing dumb. It suits them well, but they know exactly what they are doing. It will not work, but there is malice behind every move they make.

 

[Oakum_Boy]

They should look into hiring simians. I swear I've flown with a few recently. Why pay more?

 

[Lolikoka]

2.8%

An RJ will taxi awfully slow at idle plus 2.8% N1. Sorry if I'm backing things up - but since the POH says to taxi no faster than 15 kts, and we don't have any way to determine speed on the ground below 40, I'm just being safe and complying with the POH. Now if the sell-outs would stop taxiing so fast! Getting overblock - I'll get a pay-raise somehow.

 

[jackson]

believe it when we see it

it's always the same story

 

[~~~^~~~]

The company does not have the desire to get this done for one reason. They do not feel that this pilot group that the balls to go on strike. ...It will not work, but there is malice behind every move they make.

The Company doesn't have the deisre to get this done because they don't think we can get released and they have a pool of alter ego pilots eagerly waiting to take "our" flying.

They are also well aware that ALPA National's political priorities are set on the return of brand flying to mainline pilots at preferred alter ego carriers like Compass.

Management knows that ALPA is putting the small jet pilots on the battle front of "industry leading" while they cut back room deals that have lower pay rates using mainline pilots.

It is for just this very reason that management will not budge on its pay rates. And if they do have to give in, they will use ALPA's scope disaster to simply transfer the flying out to the non union alternative.

If ASA passes along industry leading, we will lead ourselves right past Delta and there will be no economic incentive to outsource flying, at least not to ASA.

We have to have scope - something that glues the Company to our flying - before we can have management's respect.

 

[V-1]

I vote for a simultaneous strike at ASA and Comair.

 

[~~~^~~~]

You know its illegal and frankly, it might just be worth it.

 

[79%N1]

Guys, I said it before....management is waiting, and will not negotiate in good faith until Comair pilots negotiate concessions, so ASA management can slam those new rates and work rules on the table and say 'this is the going DCI rate'! Don't say apples and oranges because they were dragged into bankrupcy by Delta. Their rates will influence what we get offered. It will be hard to convince the mediator that we can/should/or deserve more to fly he same stuff as Comair for much better than they have. The 50 seat rates will go up a bit, and the 700 rates will probably be unchanged much, as we would be the highest DCI 70 rate on our current book. I predict a TA will come fast after Comairs concessionary deal, and we may not like the results, but we are about to be held over the barrel here.

 

[VeeOne]

Guys, I said it before....management is waiting, and will not negotiate in good faith until Comair pilots negotiate concessions, so ASA management can slam those new rates and work rules on the table and say 'this is the going DCI rate'! Don't say apples and oranges because they were dragged into bankrupcy by Delta. Their rates will influence what we get offered. It will be hard to convince the mediator that we can/should/or deserve more to fly he same stuff as Comair for much better than they have. The 50 seat rates will go up a bit, and the 700 rates will probably be unchanged much, as we would be the highest DCI 70 rate on our current book. I predict a TA will come fast after Comairs concessionary deal, and we may not like the results, but we are about to be held over the barrel here.

It pains me to agree with you, but unfortunately, I think you are right on target.

 

[IFLYASA]

It pains me to agree with you, but unfortunately, I think you are right on target.

So what's the latest on Comair? End of the month?

 

[embdrvr]

An RJ will taxi awfully slow at idle plus 2.8% N1. Sorry if I'm backing things up - but since the POH says to taxi no faster than 15 kts, and we don't have any way to determine speed on the ground below 40, I'm just being safe and complying with the POH. Now if the sell-outs would stop taxiing so fast! Getting overblock - I'll get a pay-raise somehow.

Can't you look at your groundspeed readout on the FMS?
15 seems awfully fast. Maybe you should try 10. After all 15 is the top limit and nothign says you need to be operating at redline.

 

[VeeOne]

So what's the latest on Comair? End of the month?

I think they have an extension until the end of Feb..........I'm not 100% sure though.

 

[wmuflyguy]

I think they have an extension until the end of Feb..........I'm not 100% sure though.

Feb 2nd

 

[Oakum_Boy]

Isn't this turd getting old and white. I'm ready for a strike.

 

[VeeOne]

Isn't this turd getting old and white. I'm ready for a strike.

A strike isn't going to be the ultimate solution everyone is cracking it up to be- it simply opens up a different set of obstacles.

 

[Oakum_Boy]

No but what are we to do, roll over and take like Mesa? I don't think so because the next thing you know we'll be sharing rooms and sporting plywood.

 

[~~~^~~~]

A strike isn't going to be the ultimate solution everyone is cracking it up to be- it simply opens up a different set of obstacles.

Maybe "final solution" would be the right phrase.

 

[VeeOne]

No but what are we to do, roll over and take like Mesa? I don't think so because the next thing you know we'll be sharing rooms and sporting plywood.

Now that's funny! However, I don't think we need to worry about that- we're WAY ahead of Mesa and what they will probably get on their next T/A. Ornstein will show his @$$ again to keep his cost down at ANY cost- unfortunately.

Oakum- I'm not advocating rolling over by any stretch. However, I am saying that a strike would probably be more expensive to us than the gain we would achieve. Heck- health insurance is 350$ per person per month without having any health issues prior. Not to mention the lost wages and strike pay doesn't kick in for three or four months- and that's only if the rest of ALPA membership feels it's appropriate and worth it. How many mainliners thing the ASA battle is worth a hoot. Most don't even know we're in negotiations.

 

[~~~^~~~]

I vote for a simultaneous strike at ASA and Comair.

You have my strong YES vote. If something crazy like that ever got rolling, I would stand up and take whatever punishment came our way. We need a national referendum on the Railway Labor Act. A suspension of service would bring the issue front and center.

Further, my strike issue, SCOPE, is something that is pretty easily explained in a national forum. After all, why should employees be bound to service at a Company who refuses to be bound to its employees?

It is basic fairness and I think the public would be sympathetic.

 

[79%N1]

I agree with fins. Scope is my number 1 remaining issue. We have the scheduling/reserve/ and many of our QOL shortcomings addressed in TA'd sections. I can't see 700 pay coming up. 200 pay needs to match Skywest & Comair, and we need the Skywest bonus plan. I also don't see full retro as a possibility. But, Scope has got to be addressed, and what the Co. is proposing is laughable at best.