ASA MEC re-elects same officers

[PCL_128]

1. That still doesn't address the fact that the "majority" may make bad decisions....Just because the majority says to jump...doesn't mean it is a good idea to jump....

Agreed, but democracy (or rather Representative democracy) is still the best system. It has its faults, but nothing better is available. Unless you have a suggestion rather than your usual whining?

2. I would dispute whether or not the "rights" of the minority are truly protected within ALPA....The ASA pilots flying in theory could be taken away tomorrow if the Delta pilots decided to take back all flying.....I assume you are talking about the ALPA C&BLs when talk about protection....What there protects ASA in terms of the Delta MEC unilaterally changing the Delta scope language at the harm of ASA?

The regional pilots have enough seats on the BOD and EB to stop this sort of thing from happening. That's why the ALPA C & BLs contain these kinds of checks and balances.

 

[Speedtape]

Agreed, but democracy (or rather Representative democracy) is still the best system. It has its faults, but nothing better is available. Unless you have a suggestion rather than your usual whining? The regional pilots have enough seats on the BOD and EB to stop this sort of thing from happening. That's why the ALPA C & BLs contain these kinds of checks and balances.

I am not sure that the regional pilots have reached that position, yet. It still does not guarantee that the majority will do the right thing.

 

[PCL_128]

I am not sure that the regional pilots have reached that position, yet. It still does not guarantee that the majority will do the right thing.

There are never any 100% guarantees. You simply try to design the system in a way that prevents the overwhelming majority of abuses. I think ALPA has done a pretty good job with that. Is it perfect? Certainly not. But it's about as good a system as can be designed.

 

[Tarzan]

Agreed, but democracy (or rather Representative democracy) is still the best system. It has its faults, but nothing better is available.

How about a Constitutional Republic? Rule of law sounds much better to me than rule of man.

 

[HoserASA]

You campaigned hard for this group.....Why the buyers remorse?

I campaigned for them mainly to prevent your "coalition" from getting in. I don't like the way the LEC has already changed the contract for selfish reasons and afraid of what they may do with PBS with DU and PD on that committee. One has only to look at our "fantasic" scheduling section to see what could happen.

No remorse but they have lost my support. That's why I think new, not recycled, leadership is needed. Won't happen though because no one else will run.

Hoser

 

[PCL_128]

How about a Constitutional Republic?

That's exactly what ALPA is. You elect the status reps which compose the BOD (Congress), who are governed by the Constitution & Bylaws. The EC and EB act as the judiciary.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Valid point.... our democracy system is the best out there so far....

One reason is the American revolution. It allowed us to shed 1000 years of "rule of man"... monarchies, dictatorships... etc... and start fresh...

One of the concerning issues during the revolution was "ruling from the grave".... The policies and laws of the dead sahll not be imposed upon the living...

Not sure about the French Rev.. with the beheadings and "The Directory".

So.. this revolution sounds like a good idea.... good for ALPA? Sounds great... let's do it....

However, will the Thomas Jefferson, Ben Franklin and Thomas Paine's amongst you please present a "Declaration of Independence, Common Sense, Bill of Rights and other documents so we can see that you've thought this 'ALPA revolution' through....

I don't care to jump out of the ALPA rubber raft and into open water... with or without cooler heads thinking....

Open water with sharks is not an alternative... no matter how desperate your ego is to shed ALPA.

And no.. there is nothing on the USAPA website that convinces me that thier rebellion is a valid revolution...


Anyone got a better game plan out there?

 

[79%N1]

I don't think PD is going to put in PBS or any system that benefits just him! Thats a bit conspiratorial. Come on. The guy spends an inordinate amount of time volunteering to serve our pilots and helping to defend them or inform them on the contract and reg requirements.

I just don't thing he is out there scheming a system that benefits P at the expense of Hoser or any other pilot.

JMHO

 

[Texx]

I don't think PD is going to put in PBS or any system that benefits just him! Thats a bit conspiratorial. Come on. The guy spends an inordinate amount of time volunteering to serve our pilots and helping to defend them or inform them on the contract and reg requirements.

I just don't thing he is out there scheming a system that benefits P at the expense of Hoser or any other pilot.

JMHO

Don't be so naive. Been a problem for years.

 

[79%N1]

Not naive, and I'm saying it doesn't happen. If all you guys are so peeved at how PD, DU, DN or anyone else are doing, step up and volunteer to work for the pilot group like these guys do.

PD is NOT in there doing it so he can make PD's schedule better. Simply ludicrous!

 

[Texx]

Not naive, and I'm saying it doesn't happen. If all you guys are so peeved at how PD, DU, DN or anyone else are doing, step up and volunteer to work for the pilot group like these guys do.

PD is NOT in there doing it so he can make PD's schedule better. Simply ludicrous!

It has happened. End of story.

 

[79%N1]

Whatever.....Volunteer for the dang committee and either make some changes or be a watchdog. Either way, I don't think it is fair to slander a volunteer.

 

[Texx]

Whatever.....Volunteer for the dang committee and either make some changes or be a watchdog. Either way, I don't think it is fair to slander a volunteer.

In the first place, several people have come forward in past years to volunteer and were "not needed" when there were only 2 pilots on the committee.

Slander is a false statement. There is nothing false about it. I'll be the watchdog.

 

[79%N1]

Allright. I trust you to be the moral voice of ASA pilots. I am concinced.....PD is the scheduling committee chair so he can get good schedules for him and him only!

 

[Willy21]

You don't see it as a conflict that DU is on the PBS committee and his son (a new hire) is on the Scheduling committee? All you have to do is ask how you can help. As a person DU jr asked before he got on that committe I think his motivation is far from what you think. DU jr is a good guy that has class and respect from his peers. I did see you once show your class, looked a lot like my two year old after he gets his hand slap for being a two year old. and since when do new hires get positions on powerful committees like scheduling, anyhow? Once again all you have to do is ask, they are looking for people to spend some of their own time helping out other pilots. Care to step up or is all you can do hide behind a screen name. You would think one on the Scheduling Committee would need experience with our contract, and ASA Scheduling? If you have even had the chance to meet DU jr you would be amazed at his knowledge of the contract. Looks like DU is trying to rig the vote by stuffing the ballot box. If that is what you want to believe then believe it. Nobody is going to change your point of view, you just look like an idiot throwing a fit because you can't get your way. Don't you think the son (with what little experience a newhire has) is going to ask Dad what he should do?DU now holds two positions, one directly, one by remote control.

If you think that Jr is controled by Sr you are quite wrong. They might have the same last name and share some dna code but that is where it ends. I know for a fact that Jr has a good head on his shoulders and can make his own mind up. Nice try.

It amazes me that you think everybody is out to get you. You really need to take a break and relax. Life is to short to spend all worked up. Maybe you need to move on. Nobody believes anything you say and now you have lowered yourself to attacking a new pilot that is trying to make a difference. Way to go, with an attitude like that I no know why you are not even a small fish is the small pond anymore.

 

[Freeze]

I campaigned for them mainly to prevent your "coalition" from getting in. I don't like the way the LEC has already changed the contract for selfish reasons and afraid of what they may do with PBS with DU and PD on that committee. One has only to look at our "fantasic" scheduling section to see what could happen.

No remorse but they have lost my support. That's why I think new, not recycled, leadership is needed. Won't happen though because no one else will run.

Hoser

Can you expound on how the LEC changed the contract for selfish reasons?

Our Scheduling Section is better than the last. What do you not like about the Scheduling Section?

Is experienced leadership better than new "no experience" leadership?

Have you personally spoken with the persons that you are bashing about the issues that you are posting?

Is the only courage that you have, is to sit behind a keyboard and bash people who are working for you?

 

[Freeze]

Don't be so naive. Been a problem for years.

I just checked his seniority date and status and position. He is about 1/3rd down the list on his aircraft. If he is making his line better, as you say, then he is making everyone's line better. He has plenty of other people ahead of him that would bid any cherry lines--if there were any?

I have called him a few times on the scheduling hot line and he has always been very helpful and seemed very knowledgeable of the scheduling issues. I have never flown with him and am on a different aircraft. Actually, I have never met the man. But based on my experience and others who I have talked to, he is a great resource.

Maybe, it's just your personal issue, and if so, so be it!

 

[Speedtape]

Maybe, it's just your personal issue, and if so, so be it![/quote]


Without a doubt, you have hit the nail on the head! Texx seems obsessed with PD! Give it a rest! Most would agree, like him or not, he has been a great service to this pilot group. PD KNOWS SCHEDULING!

 

[79%N1]

That's all I've been saying. I have flown with him and see the constant barrage of calls he handles and have called on him a few times and he has gone above and beyond to help me get issues resolved.....

 

[FL990]

Texx,

To put it plainly, you are wrong about PD. To say what you are saying means you haven't the slightest clue as to what kind of time...HIS PERSONAL, UNPAID TIME... that he VOLUNTEERS to do what he does. He receives hundreds of calls per week and is VERY diligent to call each person back and follow up on every issue. He is an excellent commitee member and is very genuine. When people are unsatisfied with his findings, it is always misdirected anger. PD cannot change the contract, and when a persons rights under the contract have not been violated, there is not much he can do...and no amount of "huffing and puffing" on there part can change that. In other words, the people that usually get upset with him are the ones that don't know/understand the contract. PD...knows it and understands it better than anyone (with respect to Sec. 13).