ASA MEC re-elects same officers

[JoeMerchant]

Agreed Joe... so why should your "version of what is right" have more value than anothers "version"?

That is the whole issue and point of self government that you democracy haters can't understand...

And when your "right" doesn't happen... what do you do..... well.... we know what you do....

...you are trying to alter human nature rather than deal with it.....We all have to look out for number one before we can look out for the group.....It does me no good to help you out if it hurts me.....

...If I believe I am right and you are wrong and I believe that your belief will harm me....then I must do what I can to stop you.....

You can't seem to deal with the quote below regarding democracy....

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

...you are trying to alter human nature rather than deal with it.....We all have to look out for number one before we can look out for the group.....It does me no good to help you out if it hurts me.....

Wrong again Joe. But at least we are getting down to some of your (and plenty of people) basic programming.

I will give you that we have to look out for number one...

However, where you and I disagree is in the HOW. Simply put your methodology is to look out for you AND you think that if you are not, then you are helping others at your own expense.

I really don't expect a kid who has lived on the street to be an egalitarian and altruistic. But someone like you, who is economically sound, should have a better skillset.

And yet you think the way to go is to fight everyone... it doesn't matter if they are within your organization or not. In fact, you think before you can fight the real enemy...(management) that you have to fight your fellow pilot....

Do you think we'll be more effective if everyone is trying to solve their problems and others problems?

or

will we be more effective just trying to solve our own.. thinking others are trying to harm us?

...If I believe I am right and you are wrong and I believe that your belief will harm me....then I must do what I can to stop you.....

Ahhh the RJDC lawsuit....

What about a way to get what you wanted by helping others? This of course requires a skillset...

You can't seem to deal with the quote below regarding democracy....

As I said in another post which you failed to reply to...

Your quote is nothing but a pathetic cry from someone who didn't get what they wanted, assumes everyone else is wrong and who has claimed victim status for himself.

Your M.O. is the same as Jackson and Sharpton.

 

[PCL_128]

....define "right" and "wrong".....Both are in the eyes of the beholder.....

Hence the importance of democracy.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Hence the importance of democracy.

....democracy simply means "majority rules"....doesn't mean the majority will do what is right....This country is rapidly becoming a posterchild for what is wrong with democracy....

 

[Speedtape]

....democracy simply means "majority rules"....doesn't mean the majority will do what is right....This country is rapidly becoming a posterchild for what is wrong with democracy....

I agree totally!

 

[JoeMerchant]

I agree totally!

....well now I know the world is about to end....we have been agreeing way too much lately.....

:beer:

 

[PCL_128]

....democracy simply means "majority rules"....doesn't mean the majority will do what is right....This country is rapidly becoming a posterchild for what is wrong with democracy....

That is why you have things like a Constitution to protect the rights of the minority.

 

[Speedtape]

....well now I know the world is about to end....we have been agreeing way too much lately.....

:beer:

I agree with alot of things that you post.

One only has to look at the French Revolution, which is a prime example of your earlier statement.

 

[JoeMerchant]

That is why you have things like a Constitution to protect the rights of the minority.

1. That still doesn't address the fact that the "majority" may make bad decisions....Just because the majority says to jump...doesn't mean it is a good idea to jump....

2. I would dispute whether or not the "rights" of the minority are truly protected within ALPA....The ASA pilots flying in theory could be taken away tomorrow if the Delta pilots decided to take back all flying.....I assume you are talking about the ALPA C&BLs when talk about protection....What there protects ASA in terms of the Delta MEC unilaterally changing the Delta scope language at the harm of ASA?

3. The true majority doesn't care one way or the other about any of this and they just drift in the middle....Really you have separate minorities sparring for direction.....The majority are simply apathetic....Another problem with democracy....Unfortunately apathetic people are allowed to vote.....

 

[Speedtape]

That is why you have things like a Constitution to protect the rights of the minority.

Actually, it depends on what you define as the minority. The upper 2% of the wealthy are a minority and they have more rights than anyone!

 

[PCL_128]

1. That still doesn't address the fact that the "majority" may make bad decisions....Just because the majority says to jump...doesn't mean it is a good idea to jump....

Agreed, but democracy (or rather Representative democracy) is still the best system. It has its faults, but nothing better is available. Unless you have a suggestion rather than your usual whining?

2. I would dispute whether or not the "rights" of the minority are truly protected within ALPA....The ASA pilots flying in theory could be taken away tomorrow if the Delta pilots decided to take back all flying.....I assume you are talking about the ALPA C&BLs when talk about protection....What there protects ASA in terms of the Delta MEC unilaterally changing the Delta scope language at the harm of ASA?

The regional pilots have enough seats on the BOD and EB to stop this sort of thing from happening. That's why the ALPA C & BLs contain these kinds of checks and balances.

 

[Speedtape]

Agreed, but democracy (or rather Representative democracy) is still the best system. It has its faults, but nothing better is available. Unless you have a suggestion rather than your usual whining? The regional pilots have enough seats on the BOD and EB to stop this sort of thing from happening. That's why the ALPA C & BLs contain these kinds of checks and balances.

I am not sure that the regional pilots have reached that position, yet. It still does not guarantee that the majority will do the right thing.

 

[PCL_128]

I am not sure that the regional pilots have reached that position, yet. It still does not guarantee that the majority will do the right thing.

There are never any 100% guarantees. You simply try to design the system in a way that prevents the overwhelming majority of abuses. I think ALPA has done a pretty good job with that. Is it perfect? Certainly not. But it's about as good a system as can be designed.

 

[Tarzan]

Agreed, but democracy (or rather Representative democracy) is still the best system. It has its faults, but nothing better is available.

How about a Constitutional Republic? Rule of law sounds much better to me than rule of man.

 

[HoserASA]

You campaigned hard for this group.....Why the buyers remorse?

I campaigned for them mainly to prevent your "coalition" from getting in. I don't like the way the LEC has already changed the contract for selfish reasons and afraid of what they may do with PBS with DU and PD on that committee. One has only to look at our "fantasic" scheduling section to see what could happen.

No remorse but they have lost my support. That's why I think new, not recycled, leadership is needed. Won't happen though because no one else will run.

Hoser