ASA Furlough Fund

[Plainsman]

If this furlough fund vote goes through, how long will it last. I know it doesn't seem like alot but after 6 months of paying into the fund I give up 120 bucks. I hear this through the grapevine so am not sure of the exact amount. I can buy my children shoes with that money. I don't have an iphone, fast car, or hair gel. Anyone look at their check lately to see all the money taken out. I lost my job before I started at asa, I had to pay Cobra and Daycare while I looked for a job. I was there it sucked but no one helped my family out. There is unemployment for these guys and girls. We pay for that too. I voted no.

 

[Salukipilot4590]

If this furlough fund vote goes through, how long will it last. I know it doesn't seem like alot but after 6 months of paying into the fund I give up 120 bucks. I hear this through the grapevine so am not sure of the exact amount. I can buy my children shoes with that money. I don't have an iphone, fast car, or hair gel. Anyone look at their check lately to see all the money taken out. I lost my job before I started at asa, I had to pay Cobra and Daycare while I looked for a job. I was there it sucked but no one helped my family out. There is unemployment for these guys and girls. We pay for that too. I voted no.

Well then...since nobody helped you out you're not supposed to help anyone else out. Got it.

Hey I went through tough times too but if the option to help a kid out came up you know I'd help!

Nevertheless it was your call and I can't bash you for your decision...at least you had an opinion and voted! My hat's still off to ya!

 

[sayrejm]

Read the contract of when probation is over.

dispite what the contract says, ALPA changes the probs over to active membership at DOH + 1 year. wether that is what is supposed to happen or not is a different story. thats what has happened. also dues have been taken from paychecks for guys at 12 months from DOH dispite the contract saying probation ends 1 year after completion of IOE. in addition to that, everyone you talk to thinks probation ends at one year after DOH. it is not possible to memorize the entire contract so one could honestly believe he is off of probation when ALPA sends him a new card saying he is now an active member and then charges him for dues.

 

[johnpeace]

I notice you're an FO- could just as easily have been your tail out on furlough. Everyone is going to hit a hard spot in this career- Karma is a powerful entity

I'm one of the 80.

I would MUCH rather have seen this handled in a different way. It would be much better to have the union form a committee to manage a voluntary fund.

Forcing people into charity is a bad idea.

Why wasn't that even an option?

Secondly, I am saving money in an interest bearing account for such an event. These people should have known that furlough was a possibility and saved accordingly rather than expect a bailout forced by the the union. But given the state of the economy, I guess saving money is sooo last century, it's all about the bailouts baby! So sad.

I didn't 'expect' anything from anyone and was prepared to live without health insurance for my wife and I until we find another job.

I have 3 kids. The twins weren't exactly planned...but we're glad they're here. To say times are tight is an understatement.

Saving for this inevitability has unfortunately not been possible for the last several years.

I'll be sure to prepare better for the next global economic meltdown so as not to become a burden to anyone else.

In the meantime, I'll remember to be helpful to others when I'm in a position to help and they're barely treading water.

 

[SLUF4]

yeah, John; I agree a voluntary thing would have been much better.

 

[Texx]

yeah, John; I agree a voluntary thing would have been much better.

IS.
I've already pledged my fair share.
So what are you guys waiting for? Obama.​

 

[Stifler's Mom]

Join Date: Feb 2009

Does it ever end?

I am going to make an assumption based on your screenname. If this is somebody making a joke, than I apologize, but I doubt it.

• You are currently furloughed and unemployed.
• You manage to cast a vote, requiring your fellow coworkers to pay for your COBRA insurance, when you were told you were not eligible to vote.
• You respond to Ed's ALPA post, I can only assume so you can recieve even more money from other people.
• And the best thing about all of this, is that during a time when you should be personally tightening your own belt, you manage to spend $15 to get a FLIGHTINFO account.

I am so glad that mine and other's generosity seems to be a blank check for you.

 

[Texx]

Despite sayrejm's comments, have you taken the time to pledge to the voluntary fund?

 

[JumpersAway]

Does it ever end?

I am going to make an assumption based on your screenname. If this is somebody making a joke, than I apologize, but I doubt it.

• You are currently furloughed and unemployed.
• You manage to cast a vote, requiring your fellow coworkers to pay for your COBRA insurance, when you were told you were not eligible to vote.
• You respond to Ed's ALPA post, I can only assume so you can recieve even more money from other people.
• And the best thing about all of this, is that during a time when you should be personally tightening your own belt, you manage to spend $15 to get a FLIGHTINFO account.

I am so glad that mine and other's generosity seems to be a blank check for you.

I don't fault him for that- he was eligible to vote, and did. It's ALPA's fault, if he wasn't allowed to vote, for not shutting the door to those not eligible.

Everybody is moaning about the outcome, and the process. It was done by the book, so what more should be done? It passed, so what's the point in ranting and raving over it? I'm just not understanding some of the views here, but then, everyone is entitled to their own.

Personally, I'm glad to help- mandatory or not. For me, it's principle. I don't give a #### who's son they are, what they drive, what headset they use, or their choice in cellular telephone.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Personally, I'm glad to help- mandatory or not. For me, it's principle. I don't give a #### who's son they are, what they drive, what headset they use, or their choice in cellular telephone.

JumpersAway, I admire your willingness to help out, but let me pose the following question...

I know an FO who's wife is losing her job in this downturn and she makes more money than he does...They are going to have a hard time paying their bills....Should he be forced to help pay COBRA for people who may be better off financially than he is?

I have talked to many pilots this week who are having their own financial hardships....They aren't too happy about being forced into charity when they are having trouble themselves....

In addition, we are going to be picking up 65% of the cost of COBRA thru our tax dollars and the stimulus....They will only be responsible for 35% of the cost...

 

[ace6453]

dispite what the contract says, ALPA changes the probs over to active membership at DOH + 1 year. wether that is what is supposed to happen or not is a different story. thats what has happened. also dues have been taken from paychecks for guys at 12 months from DOH dispite the contract saying probation ends 1 year after completion of IOE. in addition to that, everyone you talk to thinks probation ends at one year after DOH. it is not possible to memorize the entire contract so one could honestly believe he is off of probation when ALPA sends him a new card saying he is now an active member and then charges him for dues.

You are one arrogant POS. You never thought you were supposed to vote. You knew that you were not supposed to vote, yet still did. You admitted all this on the alpa board. Why is this difficult for you to figure out? The people hired on the old contract got off probation at DOH +1 year. The people hired on the new contract get off probation at IOE + 1 year. Why did you still think you had to vote after ALPA told you NOT to vote at the meeting? Don't give some bullsht about how you always vote or whatever you tried justifying yourself on the alpa board, you voted to give you money because you wanted it. I voted for the proposal because I think it is right to help the furloughed folks, however I wish we could take another vote to cut your sorry ass out of it.

 

[ace6453]

Does it ever end?

I am going to make an assumption based on your screenname. If this is somebody making a joke, than I apologize, but I doubt it.

• You are currently furloughed and unemployed.
• You manage to cast a vote, requiring your fellow coworkers to pay for your COBRA insurance, when you were told you were not eligible to vote.
• You respond to Ed's ALPA post, I can only assume so you can recieve even more money from other people.
• And the best thing about all of this, is that during a time when you should be personally tightening your own belt, you manage to spend $15 to get a FLIGHTINFO account.

I am so glad that mine and other's generosity seems to be a blank check for you.

Couldn't have said it better myself

 

[www.]

I don't fault him for that- he was eligible to vote, and did. It's ALPA's fault, if he wasn't allowed to vote, for not shutting the door to those not eligible.

Everybody is moaning about the outcome, and the process. It was done by the book, so what more should be done? It passed, so what's the point in ranting and raving over it? I'm just not understanding some of the views here, but then, everyone is entitled to their own.

Read your contract. You voted for it so live by it.

 

[Speedtape]

[Involuntary] Furlough Fund= taking $300 from me to give to some BMW-driving CEO's son who has a 1 year vacation from his hobby job which he bought at a fast-track flight school in Florida.

Pal, we all have a different story on how we got here! I've got mine, and you have yours! The specific example you gave, may or may not exist, and if it does, it is isolated! More likely, most are carrying school loans with large principals, chasing the same dream that you and I did! Irregardless, they no longer have jobs!

Find an excuse, any excuse, because it's obvious that you are looking for one! (Rolling Eyes)

 

[Ineedabrew]

Is this the same tool posting on the ALPA board.

HE SHOULD HAVE NEVER VOTED.

That was my question on the first page.

I have a real problem with this.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Pal, we all have a different story on how we got here!

Find an excuse, any excuse, because it's obvious that you are looking for one! (Rolling Eyes)

Everyone has different financial situations also....Some are having a hard time paying their bills on guarantee...Some have spouses who lost their jobs....Some have children with health issues....Some are upside down in their mortgages...Where is their help?

You have to very careful about forced charity...It is a slippery slope....

You call them "excuses"....while others are just trying to get by in these tough times...

One thing is for sure...This did more harm to ALPA than any of the issues I have had with them in the past...

 

[sayrejm]

I decided, because I was procrastinating on studying, to see what people were writing on some of the webboards (your fav, ALPA, etc.). What I noticed is that a) I am not insane, because there are actually a few others that view the subject the same way I do, b) there are some loons that we work with that are extremists, and c) generally people have way too much time on their hands. The thing that disturbs me the most and I have noticed by their ALPA and web board postings as well as postings on Ourasa.com classifieds is that the select group of 80 and I know a few birds are only speaking for the entire group...seem to almost want to take a "I can cry if I want to" stance and want everyone else to know how miserable they are. Misery likes company right? Like I have said a million times before, I don't want anyone to lose their job. But honestly, if ASA is only laying off 80 people than we are doing EXCEPTIONALLY well. Home Depot is gonna lay off like 5K and Sprint 8K and even Microsoft 5K or something like that...at least we aren't them. We are still getting new planes, there is still enough flying to go around, and we are doing well as a whole. So those are all good things. I am afraid I have to agree with Faruzzi when he says "you kinda knew this was gonna happen and you should have known that the possibility of furlough was real when you get hired." It is always been in the back of my mind. Since I couldn't fly for a period of time, I know that threat is real....and it sucks..but you should live your life accordingly....and we are all one accident away from have our career destroyed. These 80 have just had their fears realized a little earlier and in a way this closed door may actually open up others. But anyway, that is not what I wanna vent about.

Again, I am just disappointed by the lack of integrity some of these guys, and i would say it is probably only four or five of them, have. They give a bad taste in everyone's mouth for the rest of the 80. One guy signs his alpa post with his name and address and has named himself 72/80.....he says something like make checks out to me and send them to. I am assuming the 72nd to be furloughed? I guess it has now become a badge of honor and maybe they should print t-shirts or something. So I looked up this cat on Facebook..and to no surprise his profile is public. He has a degree from Auburn I think it is in Aeronautical Engineering and will have a masters in business (MBA) from Riddle..looks like his is halfway through it. So my question to him, is what the f#*@)$ is your problem. If you are that educated and you have to beg your co-workers for cash than maybe that education isn't worth the paper it is printed on. I would assume that an aeronautical engineer and a soon to be MBA would be slightly more resourceful than begging and guilt tripping. What more, if you are so hurting for cash..shouldn't you be out looking for work as opposed to posting on the boards all day long?

I think it is great that ALPA has spearheaded the concept of paying for Cobra which can be a major expense. Though I don't totally agree that it is the right method and can be setting up a dangerous precedent and the administration of such a program is a little shady and I am sure good old ALPA will financially benefit..it is probably the best that can be done under such circumstances..so I voted for such a thing and donate my little 60 bucks or whatever it is. If those guys aren't grateful or at least acknowledge what the entire pilot group is doing for them..then I don't know that you can fix such a thing. When you call them out on it they all of sudden try to change the rules and say they don't want it if there are implied "costs"...costs being gratitude and knowing when to shut up. Don't know too many groups that would actually set up such a system in these economic times. But unfortunately, I have a feeling that there are a few in this group of 80 that not only expect that but probably expect a lot more.

Every classified now from this group of 80 starts out with "furloughed pilot" and then lists their stuff. I guess if you buy stuff from a furloughed pilot it is considered good will and the right thing to do even if you don't need it?

So it all comes down to...what type of people are joining this industry? It used to be a group of hard workers that had paid their dues and were willing to sacrifice to obtain something great in the future. You listed to your senior Captains as though they were god, and you tried to learn from their mistakes...you were working your way up the food chain. You weren't the loudest talker in the room, you quietly sat in the corner hoping for someone to let you ride right seat and maybe log it, you were respectful yet aggressive...and you were always proud. Uunfortunately, as most of us cry over a bottle of Jack, we have realized that there isn't that something great anymore. My goal was always to get paid to fly...get paid something I could live on. So I guess I accomplished that. But I realize there is no $300K for 10 days worth of work anymore...and that I may not always have Christmas off, I may be on reserve and I may not always have extra cash at the end of the month. Furlough, medical leave, accidents where you can no longer walk...these are always real possibilities and I will continue to plan accordingly. No body owes me anything other than the paycheck for work I have already done and I don't owe them anything other than 2 weeks of respectful notice and to show up for work i have promised to do and do it to the best of my ability. But these guys that come out of these universities (unfortunately I am a card carrying member) and quickie programs don't really seem to get the true system..and so I guess that system on which you and I were raised both in aviation and not has become antiquated and uncool. So I guess we have reached it.. I am officially one of those old salty Captains...part of the old crowd. Sad, I am only 37

I think I need a drink now :-(

Thanks for listening!

1) your right about the 72/80, i thought about making a sticker for my flight kit but mostely out of sarcasim.
2)leaving the address was a joke because in one post someone said they would rather simply mail a check to the furloughees instead of the fund, it was sarcasim, a joke, an attemt at witty humor. similar to the comments about standing on street corners.
3) i didnt learn to fly from a university as you seem to have claimed. i learned to fly after school and on the weekends starting when i was 15. everything was done part 61. I have never has an affiliation with a university flight school other than as an aircraft renter.
4) its a masters in aerospace engineering, not aeronautical. and i wasnt begging for money (refer to above claim of sarcasim)
5)i didnt know my profile was public, i thought i had made it so you cant see unless your a friend. ill be sure to change it now.
6)why am i counting? (sarcasim again)
7)i AM looking for other jobs, i have sent out about 50 resumes nationwide and internationally as well as gone door to door at all the flight departments at PDK and fulton county and savannah as well as flight safety and the air national guard. while at the same time being a full time graduate student taking those classes you mentioned online from home.
8)I am not at all whinning about anything, i am simply sarcastic. sarcasim is my coping mechanism to stress. as far as i know, being furloughed may wind up being the best thing to happen to me. you know that whole close a door open a window saying.
9) you should not talk about people you do not know a thing about because most likely you will be wrong.

finally, even though i have been sarcastic, i should know that in writting sarcasm can be taken the wrong way and often is. for that i understand your point and will do a better job making it clear if i am joking.

will all do respect, i look forward to flying with you when I am recalled. If there is anything else youd like to talk about, feel free to send me a message on ourasa

 

[sayrejm]

Does it ever end?

I am going to make an assumption based on your screenname. If this is somebody making a joke, than I apologize, but I doubt it.

• You are currently furloughed and unemployed.
• You manage to cast a vote, requiring your fellow coworkers to pay for your COBRA insurance, when you were told you were not eligible to vote.
• You respond to Ed's ALPA post, I can only assume so you can recieve even more money from other people.
• And the best thing about all of this, is that during a time when you should be personally tightening your own belt, you manage to spend $15 to get a FLIGHTINFO account.

I am so glad that mine and other's generosity seems to be a blank check for you.

wow i feel very very misunderstood... now i could hide from this but im not. im standing out in the missle of the circle here to allow you to throw your stones. its the only right thing to do.

others generosity is not a blank check to me.
-you do not know if i voted yes or no.
-never was i told NOT to vote. i asked if ALPA allowed furloughed pilots to vote. i was told no. i asked this when i thought the vote would take place after the furlough. the vote actually took place before the furlough. i was not a furloughed pilot when i voted. i believed that since the vote was before i was furloughed and that since i had a "active member" ALPA card that i was elibible to vote. when ballotpoint allowed me to vote it only strengthend my belief. obviously this is true because had i had any reservations i would have never answered someones question when they asked if the furloughees got to vote. im not that dumb. had i thought i "snuck" in a vote i would have hidden hoping noone found me. i had no malicious intent.
-this membership was 10 bucks not 15 and i borrowed the money from family members because i saw it as a career searching tool given the other chat rooms where you get valuable information on other companies. information is valuable and worth 10 bucks.
-lastely, and this goes to not knowing how i voted. i am planning to opt out of the cobra assistance if i can secure other sources for health insurance. between the obama cobra in the stimulis package and my family support i am trying everything i can not to take furlough funds because i have all along had disagreements with being given money from people who didnt want to donate it to begin with.

i find it a little to far to call someone an arrogant POS and a tool. i dont want you to have a problem with me. i am fully open to answering any specific questions in a reasonable forum. just ask without being disrespectful. there are two sides to every story. i am a painfully honest person so do your worst.

 

[sayrejm]

i also didnt spell check that last post so please no comments about not being able to spell. i am well aware i can not spell

 

[probablecause]

Apparently many people did not mind being "forced" into charity with a turnout of only 160 no votes.

If one feels so strong about this now, after the vote, I ask then where was he before the vote. Was he lobbying to his fellow pilots about what a bad plan this is and that there is a better way? "Here is my plan so vote no so we can look at other alternatives." If he was in the crew room I missed him and potentially only 160 heard his plan.

I not singling anyone out here on the forum, just suggesting the number of voters says it all.