ASA Furlough Fund

[Oakum_Boy]

You betcha. If I ever get laid off, I'm gonna pawn everything I own to survive. Dogs can't do that.

 

[Stifler's Mom]

Dogs are man's best friend. Pilots are not.

 

[JustaNumber]

I have a question for those that voted no. If it was a fund to take care of abandoned dogs of furloughed pilots would you have voted yes?

If furloughed pilots are abandoning dogs, then I would be glad I didn't vote to support those scumbag pilots! (A joke, people).

Seriously, I might consider personally donating to the dogs, but I wouldn't vote to force my coworkers to pay for the dogs.

 

[www.]

I have a question for those that voted no. If it was a fund to take care of abandoned dogs of furloughed pilots would you have voted yes?

I would take their names and sign them up with ACCORN to vote. Then I would get them a SSN and sign them up for welfare and dog food stamps. Buy them a new doghouse, more than they could afford, and use the new Obama Home Package to make his doghouse payments. Then at the end of the year he would get a check from Obama and he could have a great big party on Uncle Sam's nickle.

 

[Ineedabrew]

I decided, because I was procrastinating on studying, to see what people were writing on some of the webboards (your fav, ALPA, etc.). What I noticed is that a) I am not insane, because there are actually a few others that view the subject the same way I do, b) there are some loons that we work with that are extremists, and c) generally people have way too much time on their hands. The thing that disturbs me the most and I have noticed by their ALPA and web board postings as well as postings on Ourasa.com classifieds is that the select group of 80 and I know a few birds are only speaking for the entire group...seem to almost want to take a "I can cry if I want to" stance and want everyone else to know how miserable they are. Misery likes company right? Like I have said a million times before, I don't want anyone to lose their job. But honestly, if ASA is only laying off 80 people than we are doing EXCEPTIONALLY well. Home Depot is gonna lay off like 5K and Sprint 8K and even Microsoft 5K or something like that...at least we aren't them. We are still getting new planes, there is still enough flying to go around, and we are doing well as a whole. So those are all good things. I am afraid I have to agree with Faruzzi when he says "you kinda knew this was gonna happen and you should have known that the possibility of furlough was real when you get hired." It is always been in the back of my mind. Since I couldn't fly for a period of time, I know that threat is real....and it sucks..but you should live your life accordingly....and we are all one accident away from have our career destroyed. These 80 have just had their fears realized a little earlier and in a way this closed door may actually open up others. But anyway, that is not what I wanna vent about.

Again, I am just disappointed by the lack of integrity some of these guys, and i would say it is probably only four or five of them, have. They give a bad taste in everyone's mouth for the rest of the 80. One guy signs his alpa post with his name and address and has named himself 72/80.....he says something like make checks out to me and send them to. I am assuming the 72nd to be furloughed? I guess it has now become a badge of honor and maybe they should print t-shirts or something. So I looked up this cat on Facebook..and to no surprise his profile is public. He has a degree from Auburn I think it is in Aeronautical Engineering and will have a masters in business (MBA) from Riddle..looks like his is halfway through it. So my question to him, is what the f#*@)$ is your problem. If you are that educated and you have to beg your co-workers for cash than maybe that education isn't worth the paper it is printed on. I would assume that an aeronautical engineer and a soon to be MBA would be slightly more resourceful than begging and guilt tripping. What more, if you are so hurting for cash..shouldn't you be out looking for work as opposed to posting on the boards all day long?

I think it is great that ALPA has spearheaded the concept of paying for Cobra which can be a major expense. Though I don't totally agree that it is the right method and can be setting up a dangerous precedent and the administration of such a program is a little shady and I am sure good old ALPA will financially benefit..it is probably the best that can be done under such circumstances..so I voted for such a thing and donate my little 60 bucks or whatever it is. If those guys aren't grateful or at least acknowledge what the entire pilot group is doing for them..then I don't know that you can fix such a thing. When you call them out on it they all of sudden try to change the rules and say they don't want it if there are implied "costs"...costs being gratitude and knowing when to shut up. Don't know too many groups that would actually set up such a system in these economic times. But unfortunately, I have a feeling that there are a few in this group of 80 that not only expect that but probably expect a lot more.

Every classified now from this group of 80 starts out with "furloughed pilot" and then lists their stuff. I guess if you buy stuff from a furloughed pilot it is considered good will and the right thing to do even if you don't need it?

So it all comes down to...what type of people are joining this industry? It used to be a group of hard workers that had paid their dues and were willing to sacrifice to obtain something great in the future. You listed to your senior Captains as though they were god, and you tried to learn from their mistakes...you were working your way up the food chain. You weren't the loudest talker in the room, you quietly sat in the corner hoping for someone to let you ride right seat and maybe log it, you were respectful yet aggressive...and you were always proud. Uunfortunately, as most of us cry over a bottle of Jack, we have realized that there isn't that something great anymore. My goal was always to get paid to fly...get paid something I could live on. So I guess I accomplished that. But I realize there is no $300K for 10 days worth of work anymore...and that I may not always have Christmas off, I may be on reserve and I may not always have extra cash at the end of the month. Furlough, medical leave, accidents where you can no longer walk...these are always real possibilities and I will continue to plan accordingly. No body owes me anything other than the paycheck for work I have already done and I don't owe them anything other than 2 weeks of respectful notice and to show up for work i have promised to do and do it to the best of my ability. But these guys that come out of these universities (unfortunately I am a card carrying member) and quickie programs don't really seem to get the true system..and so I guess that system on which you and I were raised both in aviation and not has become antiquated and uncool. So I guess we have reached it.. I am officially one of those old salty Captains...part of the old crowd. Sad, I am only 37

I think I need a drink now :-(

Thanks for listening!

 

[JustaNumber]

Ineedabrew: Brew's on me. :beer:

 

[COOPERVANE]

WoW...Good post

 

[Monster Buck]

Nice post!

 

[Crash Pad]

We all agree that the seniors in our pilot group have given a lot to make a job at ASA a potential career. For that we thank you.

That said.

We also know that most of the senior crew could not explain reserve because they were never on it. Most can not explain 5 year upgrade because they never had it. We know that all of them do not understand furlough because they never experienced it... Don't give me the I was furloughed from Great Lakes for a month etc...

That said.

We are living in a time similar to the great depression. Your government will not save you. Your skill set may not help you. It would be comforting to know that someone will lend a hand.

For $20 dollars a month we can help some of these people out. Do for humans what you would do for dogs.

 

[mtsupilot376]

You know I when I first made my post I wasn't sure how it would all end up. I ultimately figured I would be savagely attacked by the ALPA wolfpack, but I did not expect a number of others to actually side with my viewpoint. To those of you that do agree, I say let your voices be heard. Don't just sit there and grumble about this in the crew lounge or at home in front of the computer. Make it known that these things can be handled much more efficiently in the private sector.
Heck, if somebody would have set up a private fund at the Delta Credit union or something, I would have put a lot more than two or three bucks in there. Not everybody is doing well financially or saving money but the charity of those that have more disposable income would have far exceeded and made up for those that couldn't contribute. But, since it is being forcefully robbed from me with out my consent, I will only be contributing the amount of my assessment and not a penny more. Call me stingy, fine! But I will not contribute to thieves' coffers and cave to their will, just because a 20% majority says so.

Seriously, this vote is not good. I think that ALPA is testing us with this one. They are trying to see if the pilots are blind enough to agree to an additional assessment (TAX) in the future and how far they can take it. They may not directly benefit from this recent assessment, but I can almost bet money that there will be others in the future for other issues. Now that they know they can pass one, what keeps them from altering it in special session or drafting another in the future? When we let our guard down against taxation and assessments are passed, it is nearly impossible to get rid of them.
It may only be two or three dollars for the FOs and ten to twenty for the CAs and that may not seem like much but that is all they need to see that we are willing to accept and adopt such proposals when the need arises. How much you want to bet our dues go up the first chance they get?

I want to know if, due to the tougher economic climate these days whether the annual ALPA MEC Chairman's meeting will still be held in posh Las Vegas resorts? What a waste.

 

[Stifler's Mom]

mtsupilot,

I will go along with the private account for those to donate into. That being said, and since you proclaim to be a supporter of it, can you tell me what have you found in your research about setting up a private fund?

The point I am trying to make is, many called for a private fund instead, but I didn't see anybody taking it further than that.

Own your own ideas. If you think you have a great solution, take it further than just saying we need a private fund. I am willing to listen to both options, and will help where I can. I just haven't seen the private fund option get off the drawing board, and our furloughed pilots need are help.

 

[probablecause]

I also see both sides of the coin like most however, as far as this being some kind of test from ALPA... well this vote that was sent out is not anything new. Other pilot groups such as Delta have voted on the same type of fund for there furloughed pilots. The union addressed this in a FAQ.

As far as that Auburn tool, I did not vote yes for him. I voted yes for guy I flew that had a wife and a kid with an unexpected kid on the way. Or the other guy who has one kid and his wife who just lost her job. The idiots like Mr Auburn just got lucky in life one more time.

While I agree this generation sucks for the most part, I hope the Delta pilots were not over there saying that last crop of pilots were the worst, good riddance to them and their family's. We are are still humans and more over we are bonded by a special fraternity.


PC

 

[CFI2766]

While I agree this generation sucks for the most part, I hope the Delta pilots were not over there saying that last crop of pilots were the worst, good riddance to them and their family's. We are are still humans and more over we are bonded by a special fraternity.


PC[/quote]


The most relevant thought in this whole thread.

 

[buscap]

People!!

This generation does not 'suck".

It's just different. And as for those differences, some are for better, some are for worse.

But let's not forget, this generation has fielded the finest all volunteer military the world has ever seen.

They may be different, and can't quote Caddyshack or appreciate a comment about Ned Beatty grabbing a log and squealing like a pig, but they don't suck!

 

[www.]

This has nothing to do with wether we do OR do not want to help fellow pilots. The answer to that is Yes we do BUT on our terms. Not to be told what we have to do.

ALPA works "for" the line pilot, the line pilot doesn't work for ALPA. What should have happened is a quick Wilson poll on the subject then proceed in the proper direct. These pilots will be taken care of, this was never in doubt.

 

[sweptback]

ALPA works "for" the line pilot, the line pilot doesn't work for ALPA. What should have happened is a quick Wilson poll on the subject then proceed in the proper direct. These pilots will be taken care of, this was never in doubt.

I agree with you, but Wilson polls are very expensive. Isn't the vote pretty much the same way of polling the pilot group? It is much cheaper to do, and it isn't really the fault of the ASA MEC that our pilot group couldn't be bothered to take the time to vote.

Given that only ~20% took the time to vote, I pretty much think that if there was a voluntary fund, the contributions would have been so low that it would have been an insult to the furloughed guys.

 

[j41driver]

I actually tried to vote, but could not figure it out. I got a number and a pin, but that's as far as I got.

Was it really that hard to figure out? Don't you guys use BallotPoint?

 

[www.]

I agree with you, but Wilson polls are very expensive. Isn't the vote pretty much the same way of polling the pilot group? It is much cheaper to do, and it isn't really the fault of the ASA MEC that our pilot group couldn't be bothered to take the time to vote.

Given that only ~20% took the time to vote, I pretty much think that if there was a voluntary fund, the contributions would have been so low that it would have been an insult to the furloughed guys.

Yes.

No.

 

[mtsupilot376]

Well I called the Delta Credit Union just to see what it would take. In this particular case, since this is not for any one individual, like a family house fire, or cancer or something, we would have to set up a temporary trust and appoint trusstees to handle disbursement to the group on a case by case basis.
Slightly complicated.

I still think that may rather than force every one to pay ALPA could have just setup the fund and allowed people to donate to it rather than take our money.

But thanks for hearing my point and not attacking me from the get go.

 

[Stifler's Mom]

Well I called the Delta Credit Union just to see what it would take. In this particular case, since this is not for any one individual, like a family house fire, or cancer or something, we would have to set up a temporary trust and appoint trusstees to handle disbursement to the group on a case by case basis.
Slightly complicated.

I still think that may rather than force every one to pay ALPA could have just setup the fund and allowed people to donate to it rather than take our money.

But thanks for hearing my point and not attacking me from the get go.

Thanks for doing some research into it. It definately sounds like it would be tricky to handle. To me, what ALPA was offering was the only real option we had. If the vote had not passed, I am not sure what direction we would have gone...if any at all.

 

[www.]

Thanks for doing some research into it. It definately sounds like it would be tricky to handle. To me, what ALPA was offering was the only real option we had. If the vote had not passed, I am not sure what direction we would have gone...if any at all.

There were other suggestions made by pilots.

 

[Smacktard]

We are living in a time similar to the great depression.

Give me a break, this isn't even comparable.

 

[JumpersAway]

Give me a break, this isn't even comparable.

..............................yet- unfortunately.

I sincerely hope it won't, either.............

 

[Stifler's Mom]

There were other suggestions made by pilots.

There were suggestions, and not much more than that. What MTSU wrote was about as far as anybody went with it. Looking into it, seeing how difficult a challenge it would have been, and left it at that.

Without going back into all the messages on the ALPA Board, I don't think anything was beyond the idea stages.

To me, I wanted to help our furloughed pilots, and I thought what ALPA had out there was the best and frankly only thing at the time. If somebody had busted their ass and put together something tangible that was voluntary for us to donate into, I would have seriously considered voting a different way.

The reasons behind not voting for the proposal that people put out were legitimate to me.

 

[Speedtape]

There were suggestions, and not much more than that. What MTSU wrote was about as far as anybody went with it. Looking into it, seeing how difficult a challenge it would have been, and left it at that.

Without going back into all the messages on the ALPA Board, I don't think anything was beyond the idea stages.

To me, I wanted to help our furloughed pilots, and I thought what ALPA had out there was the best and frankly only thing at the time. If somebody had busted their ass and put together something tangible that was voluntary for us to donate into, I would have seriously considered voting a different way.

The reasons behind not voting for the proposal that people put out were legitimate to me.

This statement is not directed necessarily towards you. Given that there has been an abundance of ideas on this forum, and given that there has been alot of debate and criticism of actions put forth by ALPA, there has been no other credible action or follow through by any of the arm chair quarterbacks and naysayers on this board. TALK IS CHEAP!

In regard to all of the claims and pledges that MOST have made about the donations they would have made to a VOLUNTARY PROGRAM--I WAIVE THE B.S. FLAG!!!!!! Once again, history has proven that most people that make such claims, NEVER follow through! Who on this forum, or not, has taken the initiative to set up a VOLUNTARY PROGRAM? NONE! Because most people are talkers, criticizers, and NON-ACTION TAKERS! We all sit back, waste alot of energy moving our jaws talking, and fingers typing--but no leadership or action is taken! Who has written the first check to help? NONE!

Bottom line--We are all wasting alot of good oxygen criticizing instead of taking any action to address the issue! Here's one last chance: What woman or man is ready to step up to the plate to lead a voluntary program? The silence will be Deafening, but predictable!

Note: For the record, I include myself in the non-action taker group!

 

[Crash Pad]

My favorite is the... "I would give wayyy more if it was voluntary"

Yep and you have no intention of working past 60.

 

[JumpersAway]

Voluntary fund= good camoflage to hide behind while not chipping in a single cent, yet telling everyone you have.

 

[Papa Woody]

Voluntary fund= good camoflage to hide behind while not chipping in a single cent, yet telling everyone you have.

[Involuntary] Furlough Fund= taking $300 from me to give to some BMW-driving CEO's son who has a 1 year vacation from his hobby job which he bought at a fast-track flight school in Florida.

 

[sweptback]

[Involuntary] Furlough Fund= taking $300 from me to give to some BMW-driving CEO's son who has a 1 year vacation from his hobby job which he bought at a fast-track flight school in Florida.

Eh, not worth it.

 

[Salukipilot4590]

[Involuntary] Furlough Fund= taking $300 from me to give to some BMW-driving CEO's son who has a 1 year vacation from his hobby job which he bought at a fast-track flight school in Florida.

You made me smile...thank you.