ASA Furlough Fund

[Oakum_Boy]

What are they gonna do if I don't pay? Seems like everyone is out for my money these days. Somethin for nothin. THe new America. If I were a furloughee, I wouldn't expect anyone to take care of me, least of all some underpaid regional pilots.

 

[SLUF4]

I'm as anti Obama/socialism as they come. If this were about helping out some lazy do nothings I would have voted no, but this is about helping our fellow co-WORKERS.

 

[COOPERVANE]

Voted yes, but was VERY dissapointed in our union communications. Wish we could've handled this with a private account.
Lots of speculation about who/how much/how long/how to verify/unlimited extension?

1500 pilots shouldn't have to make 1500 phone calls to get the required info. This was mismanaged

But, again, glad it passed

 

[Brasilia Pup]

Voted no. Already been furloughed before, no one helped me out. I'm sure ALPO has enough $$$ in their treasure chests to pay for the furloughees' COBRA benefits. If this was Delta, it would have been paid for by ALPO. I just hope this increase in our ALPO dues is TAX-Deductible!!! 5 1/2 years in negotiations for a new 3-year contract?! Way to go, ALPO!

 

[Ineedabrew]

Something is just not right

I have a question

Why were the furloughed allowed to vote. One of the furloughed admitted to voting on the ALPA board. That does not seem kosher.

 

[Brasilia Pup]

If you are off probation, in other words been at the company for more than 1 year, you are entitled to vote. Simple as that. They have the right to vote on their own fate. There is no seniority in voting, if you have voting rights.

 

[www.]

I am willing to be that we could have raised more money and had a better participation for the furloughed pilot's fund if we had set up a private account (not associated with ALPO) for donations. Forcing people to pay is only going to result in people reluctantly paying the minimum, not opening their wallets to pay more.

You may get your wish.

 

[www.]

If you are off probation, in other words been at the company for more than 1 year, you are entitled to vote. Simple as that. They have the right to vote on their own fate. There is no seniority in voting, if you have voting rights.

Read the contract of when probation is over.

 

[sweptback]

If this was Delta, it would have been paid for by ALPO.

Actually, the last time Delta furloughed they did a similar assessment fund to pay their furloughees' COBRA. I'm sure a current DL pilot could tell you more about it.

 

[Crash Pad]

I have a question for those that voted no. If it was a fund to take care of abandoned dogs of furloughed pilots would you have voted yes?

 

[Oakum_Boy]

You betcha. If I ever get laid off, I'm gonna pawn everything I own to survive. Dogs can't do that.

 

[Stifler's Mom]

Dogs are man's best friend. Pilots are not.

 

[JustaNumber]

I have a question for those that voted no. If it was a fund to take care of abandoned dogs of furloughed pilots would you have voted yes?

If furloughed pilots are abandoning dogs, then I would be glad I didn't vote to support those scumbag pilots! (A joke, people).

Seriously, I might consider personally donating to the dogs, but I wouldn't vote to force my coworkers to pay for the dogs.

 

[www.]

I have a question for those that voted no. If it was a fund to take care of abandoned dogs of furloughed pilots would you have voted yes?

I would take their names and sign them up with ACCORN to vote. Then I would get them a SSN and sign them up for welfare and dog food stamps. Buy them a new doghouse, more than they could afford, and use the new Obama Home Package to make his doghouse payments. Then at the end of the year he would get a check from Obama and he could have a great big party on Uncle Sam's nickle.

 

[Ineedabrew]

I decided, because I was procrastinating on studying, to see what people were writing on some of the webboards (your fav, ALPA, etc.). What I noticed is that a) I am not insane, because there are actually a few others that view the subject the same way I do, b) there are some loons that we work with that are extremists, and c) generally people have way too much time on their hands. The thing that disturbs me the most and I have noticed by their ALPA and web board postings as well as postings on Ourasa.com classifieds is that the select group of 80 and I know a few birds are only speaking for the entire group...seem to almost want to take a "I can cry if I want to" stance and want everyone else to know how miserable they are. Misery likes company right? Like I have said a million times before, I don't want anyone to lose their job. But honestly, if ASA is only laying off 80 people than we are doing EXCEPTIONALLY well. Home Depot is gonna lay off like 5K and Sprint 8K and even Microsoft 5K or something like that...at least we aren't them. We are still getting new planes, there is still enough flying to go around, and we are doing well as a whole. So those are all good things. I am afraid I have to agree with Faruzzi when he says "you kinda knew this was gonna happen and you should have known that the possibility of furlough was real when you get hired." It is always been in the back of my mind. Since I couldn't fly for a period of time, I know that threat is real....and it sucks..but you should live your life accordingly....and we are all one accident away from have our career destroyed. These 80 have just had their fears realized a little earlier and in a way this closed door may actually open up others. But anyway, that is not what I wanna vent about.

Again, I am just disappointed by the lack of integrity some of these guys, and i would say it is probably only four or five of them, have. They give a bad taste in everyone's mouth for the rest of the 80. One guy signs his alpa post with his name and address and has named himself 72/80.....he says something like make checks out to me and send them to. I am assuming the 72nd to be furloughed? I guess it has now become a badge of honor and maybe they should print t-shirts or something. So I looked up this cat on Facebook..and to no surprise his profile is public. He has a degree from Auburn I think it is in Aeronautical Engineering and will have a masters in business (MBA) from Riddle..looks like his is halfway through it. So my question to him, is what the f#*@)$ is your problem. If you are that educated and you have to beg your co-workers for cash than maybe that education isn't worth the paper it is printed on. I would assume that an aeronautical engineer and a soon to be MBA would be slightly more resourceful than begging and guilt tripping. What more, if you are so hurting for cash..shouldn't you be out looking for work as opposed to posting on the boards all day long?

I think it is great that ALPA has spearheaded the concept of paying for Cobra which can be a major expense. Though I don't totally agree that it is the right method and can be setting up a dangerous precedent and the administration of such a program is a little shady and I am sure good old ALPA will financially benefit..it is probably the best that can be done under such circumstances..so I voted for such a thing and donate my little 60 bucks or whatever it is. If those guys aren't grateful or at least acknowledge what the entire pilot group is doing for them..then I don't know that you can fix such a thing. When you call them out on it they all of sudden try to change the rules and say they don't want it if there are implied "costs"...costs being gratitude and knowing when to shut up. Don't know too many groups that would actually set up such a system in these economic times. But unfortunately, I have a feeling that there are a few in this group of 80 that not only expect that but probably expect a lot more.

Every classified now from this group of 80 starts out with "furloughed pilot" and then lists their stuff. I guess if you buy stuff from a furloughed pilot it is considered good will and the right thing to do even if you don't need it?

So it all comes down to...what type of people are joining this industry? It used to be a group of hard workers that had paid their dues and were willing to sacrifice to obtain something great in the future. You listed to your senior Captains as though they were god, and you tried to learn from their mistakes...you were working your way up the food chain. You weren't the loudest talker in the room, you quietly sat in the corner hoping for someone to let you ride right seat and maybe log it, you were respectful yet aggressive...and you were always proud. Uunfortunately, as most of us cry over a bottle of Jack, we have realized that there isn't that something great anymore. My goal was always to get paid to fly...get paid something I could live on. So I guess I accomplished that. But I realize there is no $300K for 10 days worth of work anymore...and that I may not always have Christmas off, I may be on reserve and I may not always have extra cash at the end of the month. Furlough, medical leave, accidents where you can no longer walk...these are always real possibilities and I will continue to plan accordingly. No body owes me anything other than the paycheck for work I have already done and I don't owe them anything other than 2 weeks of respectful notice and to show up for work i have promised to do and do it to the best of my ability. But these guys that come out of these universities (unfortunately I am a card carrying member) and quickie programs don't really seem to get the true system..and so I guess that system on which you and I were raised both in aviation and not has become antiquated and uncool. So I guess we have reached it.. I am officially one of those old salty Captains...part of the old crowd. Sad, I am only 37

I think I need a drink now :-(

Thanks for listening!

 

[JustaNumber]

Ineedabrew: Brew's on me. :beer:

 

[COOPERVANE]

WoW...Good post

 

[Monster Buck]

Nice post!

 

[Crash Pad]

We all agree that the seniors in our pilot group have given a lot to make a job at ASA a potential career. For that we thank you.

That said.

We also know that most of the senior crew could not explain reserve because they were never on it. Most can not explain 5 year upgrade because they never had it. We know that all of them do not understand furlough because they never experienced it... Don't give me the I was furloughed from Great Lakes for a month etc...

That said.

We are living in a time similar to the great depression. Your government will not save you. Your skill set may not help you. It would be comforting to know that someone will lend a hand.

For $20 dollars a month we can help some of these people out. Do for humans what you would do for dogs.

 

[mtsupilot376]

You know I when I first made my post I wasn't sure how it would all end up. I ultimately figured I would be savagely attacked by the ALPA wolfpack, but I did not expect a number of others to actually side with my viewpoint. To those of you that do agree, I say let your voices be heard. Don't just sit there and grumble about this in the crew lounge or at home in front of the computer. Make it known that these things can be handled much more efficiently in the private sector.
Heck, if somebody would have set up a private fund at the Delta Credit union or something, I would have put a lot more than two or three bucks in there. Not everybody is doing well financially or saving money but the charity of those that have more disposable income would have far exceeded and made up for those that couldn't contribute. But, since it is being forcefully robbed from me with out my consent, I will only be contributing the amount of my assessment and not a penny more. Call me stingy, fine! But I will not contribute to thieves' coffers and cave to their will, just because a 20% majority says so.

Seriously, this vote is not good. I think that ALPA is testing us with this one. They are trying to see if the pilots are blind enough to agree to an additional assessment (TAX) in the future and how far they can take it. They may not directly benefit from this recent assessment, but I can almost bet money that there will be others in the future for other issues. Now that they know they can pass one, what keeps them from altering it in special session or drafting another in the future? When we let our guard down against taxation and assessments are passed, it is nearly impossible to get rid of them.
It may only be two or three dollars for the FOs and ten to twenty for the CAs and that may not seem like much but that is all they need to see that we are willing to accept and adopt such proposals when the need arises. How much you want to bet our dues go up the first chance they get?

I want to know if, due to the tougher economic climate these days whether the annual ALPA MEC Chairman's meeting will still be held in posh Las Vegas resorts? What a waste.