ASA Detroit Base...

[crj567]

I am willing to switch to whatever more efficient system the company wants to as QOL is not effected by the switch and the pilot group is returned some of the savings. PBS was one step. Dual Qual is the next and last step. Other than dual qual there are no other areas Im willing to take a cut. Except getting rid of duty rigs on naps.

Well, maybe we could go to 5 min days off a month. Maybe we could sleep in tents on the front lawn of the airports on our overnights, maybe we could also get qualified on fueling, catering, cleaning, and wheelchair ops. For all this, maybe the company would "enhance" our Performance Plus checks by .28 cents per quarter. Other than those ares, you are not willing to take a cut.... Well-except for doing naps for free!

-Seriously, if you wish to prostitute yourself to such an extent, you should just find a street corner. There are already enough whore$ in this industry, we are fully staffed.

 

[Nevets]

I am willing to switch to whatever more efficient system the company wants to as QOL is not effected by the switch and the pilot group is returned some of the savings. PBS was one step. Dual Qual is the next and last step. Other than dual qual there are no other areas Im willing to take a cut. Except getting rid of duty rigs on naps.

Well I'm glad you mentioned that because if we at XJT would to switch to your PBS, it would negatively affect 2400 pilots' QOL! What would you tell us?

 

[wms]

PBS gave me commutable 3-days with weekends off for the first time ever. w/Parallel bidding my 7 day vaca stretched to 18 in PBS and I got 13 w/line bidding. It's not a PBS problem, its an ASA problem, namely 2 pilot haters in the GO.

 

[wms]

Well I'm glad you mentioned that because if we at XJT would to switch to your PBS, it would negatively affect 2400 pilots' QOL! What would you tell us?

.......

 

[johnpeace]

It's not a PBS problem, its an ASA problem, namely 2 pilot haters in the GO.

Our 'association' should make forcing their retirement a #1 priority for the JCBA.

85% of the scheduling suck is attributable to their ineptitude and inability to use the resources they have effectively. I'm ready to enjoy the scheduling we'd have with a competently managed crew resources/utilization department.

 

[Flyguy1226]

Another thread drift about PBS....:smash:

Back on topic... Look's like quite a few IAD FO's are bidding to DTW. I could see some displacement to IAD.

 

[crj567]

PBS gave me commutable 3-days with weekends off for the first time ever. w/Parallel bidding my 7 day vaca stretched to 18 in PBS and I got 13 w/line bidding. It's not a PBS problem, its an ASA problem, namely 2 pilot haters in the GO.

The problem is that we gave the company the tools they needed to screw us hard. We could have held out for a version which truly protected us, but no-we gave them the version which could screw our QOL with almost limitless abandon.

Letting this agreement ever see the light of day without real restrictions and protections involving the type of trips which the company can build was completely and unforgivably irresponsible.

Everyone should have known what would happen when we put ourselves in the position of having to trust that the company to do the right thing. Was there ever a point in the past, when the company has not abused this kind of trust? I sure don't remember it.

I have no confidence in anyone who negotiated or signed this rag. Many people told them this situation is exactly what would result, and now they are so "surprised" and "outraged?!?"

-I don't buy it. Not anymore.

 

[Abernathy]

The reason this senior pilot voted for PBS was so that we would be better positioned for growth which benefits junior people more than senior people...You're welcome..

You're not going to fool anyone into believing you are that altruistic. PBS benefits senior pilots and that's why senior pilots voted yes. Please don't insult our intelligence and claim you "did it for us"..

 

[pipi]

You're not going to fool anyone into believing you are that altruistic. PBS benefits senior pilots and that's why senior pilots voted yes. Please don't insult our intelligence and claim you "did it for us"..

I am not a senior pilot and this month I had the best schedule I have had in two years. I guess everyone is different, and I haven´t seen my march schedule yet. But for now, and as far as I am concerned, I am happy with PBS.

 

[gator_hater]

maybe we could sleep in tents on the front lawn of the airports on our overnights.

That would be the occasional improvement.

 

[the palm]

The problem is that we gave the company the tools they needed to screw us hard. We could have held out for a version which truly protected us, but no-we gave them the version which could screw our QOL with almost limitless abandon.

The company already had the tools they needed to screw us hard. And they did. Remember red arrows? Remember last summer? I'm not saying PBS fixed any of those problems, but at least the pilots have gained more control over their schedules.

Point is I am much happier bidding on these crappy trips than bidding on an entire crappy month. Seems like most people feel the same way.

 

[jstyle13]

Another thread drift about PBS....:smash:

Back on topic... Look's like quite a few IAD FO's are bidding to DTW. I could see some displacement to IAD.

Nice try. Every friggin ASA thread turns into the same 5 guys bickering about PBS and or the union.

Looks like DTW is going fairly senior on the capt but boy there are gonna be some FO's unwillingly shipped up to DTW. I have a feeling they aren't gonna have a problem getting the 56 capt's or close to it. Anyone taking a guess as to how many lines there will be in DTW? I'm guessing around 47ish each month. Hope they are commutable.....

 

[wms]

You're not going to fool anyone into believing you are that altruistic. PBS benefits senior pilots and that's why senior pilots voted yes. Please don't insult our intelligence and claim you "did it for us"..

You're attributing the woes of the junior pilots' schedules to PBS? No system benefits the junior pilot. We're in a seniority based profession and things get better as you move up. The fall of 09 I was a junior ATL captain on reserve and life was miserable with line bidding. Now I have a little seniority and life is good. I just wish it didn't take 10 years to get here.

With PBS there are 180+ pilots that were on reserve and now hold a line. Tell them PBS hurts the junior pilot.

As for as displacements go, if the numbers are accurate most of the open positions in DTW and IAD should be covered by the new-hires. With the anticipated hiring they should be able to bid where they want fairly soon.

Does being displaced stink? Yes. I've been displaced three times here, but life goes on and things get better.

Like I said, it's part of being in a seniority based profession.

 

[777forever]

You're attributing the woes of the junior pilots' schedules to PBS? No system benefits the junior pilot. We're in a seniority based profession and things get better as you move up. The fall of 09 I was a junior ATL captain on reserve and life was miserable with line bidding. Now I have a little seniority and life is good. I just wish it didn't take 10 years to get here.

With PBS there are 180+ pilots that were on reserve and now hold a line. Tell them PBS hurts the junior pilot.

As for as displacements go, if the numbers are accurate most of the open positions in DTW and IAD should be covered by the new-hires. With the anticipated hiring they should be able to bid where they want fairly soon.

Does being displaced stink? Yes. I've been displaced three times here, but life goes on and things get better.

Like I said, it's part of being in a seniority based profession.

Please don't try to reason with Abernathy using common sense and logic. It won't work...

 

[Nevets]

The company already had the tools they needed to screw us hard. And they did. Remember red arrows? Remember last summer? I'm not saying PBS fixed any of those problems, but at least the pilots have gained more control over their schedules.

Point is I am much happier bidding on these crappy trips than bidding on an entire crappy month. Seems like most people feel the same way.

I think the mistake is the thinking that PBS is the only way to gain more control over their schedules. There are better ways of getting more control over your schedules without PBS.

 

[screamingpax]

I think the mistake is the thinking that PBS is the only way to gain more control over their schedules. There are better ways of getting more control over your schedules without PBS.

Have you ever bid a schedule with Flightline PBS and under the rules of the ASA LOA?

 

[Nevets]

Have you ever bid a schedule with Flightline PBS and under the rules of the ASA LOA?

No but I've read and heard all about ASA's implementation of PBS. It's silly to think that their PBS is as good as it gets.

 

[Redan]

You're attributing the woes of the junior pilots' schedules to PBS? No system benefits the junior pilot. We're in a seniority based profession and things get better as you move up. The fall of 09 I was a junior ATL captain on reserve and life was miserable with line bidding. Now I have a little seniority and life is good. I just wish it didn't take 10 years to get here.

With PBS there are 180+ pilots that were on reserve and now hold a line. Tell them PBS hurts the junior pilot.

As for as displacements go, if the numbers are accurate most of the open positions in DTW and IAD should be covered by the new-hires. With the anticipated hiring they should be able to bid where they want fairly soon.

Does being displaced stink? Yes. I've been displaced three times here, but life goes on and things get better.

Like I said, it's part of being in a seniority based profession.

Once again, IT'S NOT PBS THAT IS THE PROBLEM! It's the PBS agreement with the weak contract language allowing company ability to manipulate line/pairing construction with impunity. This is a detriment to all pilots at this airline. Sir, it is an issue of garbage in, garbage out. WMS, I'm in the same boat as you with my first time off reserve in almost 2 years. But that doesn't mean I'm willing to accept this ugly situation we find ourselves in. And quite frankly, I haven't heard a single argument or valid point indicating any reason why I should. The JCBA appears to be our only opportunity to dig ourselves out of this hole (an opportunity which could be considered a godsend) and I sincerely hope we don't biss it away.

 

[screamingpax]

No but I've read and heard all about ASA's implementation of PBS. It's silly to think that their PBS is as good as it gets.

No huh...... Then shut it!

Oh wait, you read it and heard all about it! I sincerely hope you don't form all of your opinions this way.

 

[Flybywire44]

No but I've read and heard all about ASA's implementation of PBS. It's silly to think that their PBS is as good as it gets.

ASA's PBS is the best PBS system out and its going to get better. They have a lot of features coming and an offline program in development for 'offline sorting.'

FLICA is going to make a lot of money off the system our PBS committee designed. Special thanks to Captain P.D. for making PBS what it is today.

 

[COOPERVANE]

ASA's PBS is the best PBS system out and its going to get better. They have a lot of features coming and an offline program in development for 'offline sorting.'

Can I buy some of whatever you're smoking?

 

[Redan]

Originally Posted by Flybywire44
ASA's PBS is the best PBS system out and its going to get better. They have a lot of features coming and an offline program in development for 'offline sorting.'

Can I buy some of whatever you're smoking?

Coopervane, remember the smack he's on will get you fired and cause you to make agenda based comments on flightinfo.

 

[Nevets]

No huh...... Then shut it!

Oh wait, you read it and heard all about it! I sincerely hope you don't form all of your opinions this way.

I can say the same thing to you since you haven't used and bid on XJTs line bidding system and scheduling work rules. I've read every single post on here, APC, and the pipe having anything to do with ASAs PBS. And I have asked about and learned a lot about their PBS in those threads and from personally talking with some of their crews. So far, there is absolutely nothing that increases QOL, flexibility, or anything else. In fact, nothing has been said or pointed out that it would increase QOL of XJT pilots much less maintaining their QOL.

Can you answer this, what are XJTs scheduling work rules and can you explain them with our line bidding system, tell is what phase 1, phase 2, ILIW, SLIW, min level, BDWD, trading floor or anything else is? Can you explain what specifically why ASAs PBS is better or increases XJTs QOL point by point?

ASA's PBS is the best PBS system out and its going to get better. They have a lot of features coming and an offline program in development for 'offline sorting.'

I never disputed that ASAs PBS is not the best of the best PBS out there. I'm just saying that despite that, XJTs line bidding system couple with their scheduling work rules, is better.

By the way, what is offline sorting?

 

[crj567]

ASA's PBS is the best PBS system out and its going to get better. They have a lot of features coming and an offline program in development for 'offline sorting.'

FLICA is going to make a lot of money off the system our PBS committee designed. Special thanks to Captain P.D. for making PBS what it is today.

You have been rolling up discarded tampons and smoking them again, haven't you?

-Get help.

 

[79%N1]

I think the mistake is the thinking that PBS is the only way to gain more control over their schedules. There are better ways of getting more control over your schedules without PBS.

How? Bidding on a crap line that I DONT want with no trips I wish to fly......then dumping the whole thing and hoping to be the first one at the computer for a small chance of finding something that someone else dropped that I MAY actually like and pick that up? Mean whilst, someone else is hoping I drop something that they may want more than the crap trips on their crap line they bid on so they can get that trip?

No thanks!

 

[crj567]

The company already had the tools they needed to screw us hard. And they did. Remember red arrows? Remember last summer? I'm not saying PBS fixed any of those problems, but at least the pilots have gained more control over their schedules.

You honestly have no idea what we are dealing with, do you? I guess you really haven't noodled out this scenario:

-Plug crap trips which have such low credit value that it is impossible for most of us to complete a schedule working only 4 days per week. Run this mess thru our fancy super-duper system, and guess what spits out the other end...

-You shouldn't have to try and stretch the limits of your imagination much longer. You will see the fresh hell which awaits the majority of our pilot group in just a couple of days.

-You have much to learn, butterfly. Sometimes reality just sneaks up and bites you in the ass.

 

[southern cross 7]

PBS, kinda like an Air Data Computer. Crap in = Crap out

 

[Abernathy]

You're attributing the woes of the junior pilots' schedules to PBS? No system benefits the junior pilot. We're in a seniority based profession and things get better as you move up. The fall of 09 I was a junior ATL captain on reserve and life was miserable with line bidding. Now I have a little seniority and life is good. I just wish it didn't take 10 years to get here.

With PBS there are 180+ pilots that were on reserve and now hold a line. Tell them PBS hurts the junior pilot.

As for as displacements go, if the numbers are accurate most of the open positions in DTW and IAD should be covered by the new-hires. With the anticipated hiring they should be able to bid where they want fairly soon.

Does being displaced stink? Yes. I've been displaced three times here, but life goes on and things get better.

Like I said, it's part of being in a seniority based profession.

Yeah dude I know. But that wasn't my point.

 

[screamingpax]

I can say the same thing to you since you haven't used and bid on XJTs line bidding system and scheduling work rules. I've read every single post on here, APC, and the pipe having anything to do with ASAs PBS. And I have asked about and learned a lot about their PBS in those threads and from personally talking with some of their crews. So far, there is absolutely nothing that increases QOL, flexibility, or anything else. In fact, nothing has been said or pointed out that it would increase QOL of XJT pilots much less maintaining their QOL.

Can you answer this, what are XJTs scheduling work rules and can you explain them with our line bidding system, tell is what phase 1, phase 2, ILIW, SLIW, min level, BDWD, trading floor or anything else is? Can you explain what specifically why ASAs PBS is better or increases XJTs QOL point by point?

You are correct, I have not bid with it, but I am not and have not whined continuously about it. All I know is that I am happy with PBS. But I do know that I can bid for trips, and when our awards are out I am done. I no longer have to go through multiple bid phases or the open time pot. Seems much quicker to me based on what you just said. About 30 minutes once a month and voila!

Reading posts on a web forum regarding PBS is no way to learn what it is about. All you hear is the top 1% of the most disgruntled people who would complain about anything. And if you have read every single post regarding it on all of these boards, GET A LIFE!

I used to think Delta pilots had big heads, you XJT guys amaze me. At least they get paid enough to have an inflated ego. You fly RJs correct?

 

[ASA_Aviator]

I can say the same thing to you since you haven't used and bid on XJTs line bidding system and scheduling work rules. I've read every single post on here, APC, and the pipe having anything to do with ASAs PBS. And I have asked about and learned a lot about their PBS in those threads and from personally talking with some of their crews. So far, there is absolutely nothing that increases QOL, flexibility, or anything else. In fact, nothing has been said or pointed out that it would increase QOL of XJT pilots much less maintaining their QOL.

Can you answer this, what are XJTs scheduling work rules and can you explain them with our line bidding system, tell is what phase 1, phase 2, ILIW, SLIW, min level, BDWD, trading floor or anything else is? Can you explain what specifically why ASAs PBS is better or increases XJTs QOL point by point?



I never disputed that ASAs PBS is not the best of the best PBS out there. I'm just saying that despite that, XJTs line bidding system couple with their scheduling work rules, is better.

By the way, what is offline sorting?

The problem is that once ASA starts building your lines, your current line bidding system will suck. Quit looking into the past, and start looking forward, or you're going to get screwed.