ASA Detroit Base...

[COOPERVANE]

How would the company built lines look with these pairings?

Better than PBS will allow. Probably loads of crappy 4 days. But probably only 4 in a month, not 4 and a few day lines or a three day like we are going to get.

 

[crj567]

How would the company built lines look with these pairings?

I would bet we would have far more than 30 something CDOs, for a start. You forget that PBS (without effective protections) will result in a ton more people who are flying at 10 or 11 days off. I am not sure you realize how many people are going to be dropped into "select all remaining pairings" next month, given the extremely unacceptable pairings we see now.

Our PBS agreement gives the company a much greater degree of power in terms of screwing around with the type and distribution of pairings it builds for us. It will be easy for them to simply make us plug in completely impossible pairings, so that many of us simply cannot complete a line without dropping into "select all remaining pairings."

So, now we are looking at a situation in which the company can throw complete crap in one end, and screw a huge percentage of our pilots out of most or all of preferences on the other end. Why would you need practically any reserves when you can create such crappy pairings that 40 or 50 percent of our pilots get dropped into "select all remaining" and you can work them at 10 days off, on any days of the week you wish?

-Crew planning's wet dream has finally been achieved, and damn, if we didn't bend over backwards to sell this steaming pile of monkey excrement to our pilot group!

-There are no effective limits on what the company can throw into this system. Even you may find your super-senior self at min days off soon, Joe.. (I know our weak-ass agreement won't provide any protections against that eventuality) It could get that bad, I $hit you not.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Better than PBS will allow. Probably loads of crappy 4 days. But probably only 4 in a month, not 4 and a few day lines or a three day like we are going to get.

What prevents the company from building the same lines? If the company sets the parameters and builds the trips, then I don't see how they would be different.

4 things are causing this:

1. Bidding for flying based on cost.

2. Cost of Naps based on our contract.

3. Reduction of stage lengths for the 50.

4. Inability to swap 50s for 70s/90s.

1 and 3 are Delta decisions period. 2 was a decision we made. 4 is something our union has dictated.....

 

[COOPERVANE]

I would be all for eliminating Rigs for nap lines. It benefits only about 20-35 pilots on the 200, (or used to) but it helps decrease EVERYBODY'S QOL

 

[ASACRJFlyer]

Don't let the door hit'ya in the @$$...Time for some of you big talkers to put your money where your mouth is...Either quit or shut your pie hole...

Joe, you're such a company suck-up pr!ck. Every f'ing thread, its the same tired "defend the company (no matter how bad QOL gets for the pilots), blame ALPA" bullsh!t.

Here's what I look forward to... Being able to put my money where my mouth is when the next round of hiring begins so I can leave and never look back. I hope and pray that those of us who still want to move on to bigger and better carriers are able to do just that. You'll still be here at ASA, defending management even while they continue to take your QOL and flush it further down the toilet. You stay here at ASA and rot for all I care,Poppascrewuo has a special jar of KY waiting just for you. Some of us still hope to make this into a profession we can be proud of, rather than lower the bar so that we can "stay competitive" for the scraps that Delta doles out.

By the way, how did a thread that was supposed to be about the possibility of a Detroit base and the associated staffing issues get hijacked into ANOTHER thread arguing about PBS? Aren't there enough of those already?

 

[Medeco]

Medeco, did Brad:

1. Decide to farm out "little airplane" flying based on cost?

2. Refuse to fly "little airplanes" because they are too "good" to fly them?

3. Decide to fly 50 on short legs?

4. Limit us to the number of 70/90 seaters we can fly?

Folks, the fact is there is plenty of blame to go around here....

ALPA is partially to blame for the fact that we have to compete for flying. ALPA is too blame for the fact that we can't replace these 50's for 70's/90's. Delta is responsible for the stage lengths and schedules.

PBS has nothing to do with this...The truth hurts...

The biggest thing Brad has decided to do, is reduce cost on the backs of the pilots. He has proven that money comes before safety, which we all know, but it is now on paper.

If the QOL is of ZERO concern to this leadership and they spit in our face on the second month of PBS then its time to play hardball.

I have been a strong advocate for realistic thoughts regarding PBS and schedules.

The month of January had livable pairings, nothing has changed from Delta, so the company has decided to save massive money on the backs of those who are directly responsible for the safety of our customers.

Brad has a choice, and so far he has chosen to stab us in the back

 

[SBD]

Enjoy the slowest gate agents/rampers and actual jetbridge speed on earth. Enjoy being de-iced over 50% of the time during winter. Enjoy the permanent overcast layer there in the winter. Enjoy waiting for a gate when there are 5 open ones but ramp control only wants you to go to C21. Other than that it's awsome here.

 

[EV120]

Are you all willing to give up a few pennies every quarter for safety? Perf Plus is a safety issue in and of itself. Why rush for a pittance...

 

[aircombat]

What prevents the company from building the same lines?...

You are still asking the wrong question. It's not how the company could have built better lines with these pairings. The question is how would the company build these pairings without PBS? The answer is they couldn't. There would be too many pairings to cover in line bidding. With scheduling conflicts there would be far too many pairings in open time for the reserves to handle.

 

[Stifler's Mom]

Don't let the door hit'ya in the @$$...Time for some of you big talkers to put your money where your mouth is...Either quit or shut your pie hole...

What about a third option of a lawsuit? When it came for you to "either quit" or "shut your pie hole", you managed to come up with that gem. You're being a hypocrite.

 

[777forever]

Enjoy the slowest gate agents/rampers and actual jetbridge speed on earth. Enjoy being de-iced over 50% of the time during winter. Enjoy the permanent overcast layer there in the winter. Enjoy waiting for a gate when there are 5 open ones but ramp control only wants you to go to C21. Other than that it's awsome here.

Who cares? We get paid by the minute don't we? Overblock baby! I'd much rather do that flying nice equipment like the 700/900 on nice long legs during nice high block trips with nice overnights than do this 6 legs for 5 hrs credit crap in ATL with a 9hr overnight in BFE all month long on the POS 200 for min guarantee.

DTW Here I come!

 

[SBD]

Who cares? We get paid by the minute don't we? Overblock baby! I'd much rather do that flying nice equipment like the 700/900 on nice long legs during nice high block trips with nice overnights than do this 6 legs for 5 hrs credit crap in ATL with a 9hr overnight in BFE all month long on the POS 200 for min guarantee.

DTW Here I come!

I enjoy overblocking too. Just remember that statement on the last day/last leg of your 4 day trying to commute home.

 

[Abernathy]

What prevents the company from building the same lines? If the company sets the parameters and builds the trips, then I don't see how they would be different.

4 things are causing this:

1. Bidding for flying based on cost.

2. Cost of Naps based on our contract.

3. Reduction of stage lengths for the 50.

4. Inability to swap 50s for 70s/90s.

1 and 3 are Delta decisions period. 2 was a decision we made. 4 is something our union has dictated.....

Joe I think you need to consider that you're missing staffing as a critical issue. Staffing is not where it needs to be and has not been since the day Brad took over. You can make all the excuses for him you want, but we can easily afford to hire enough pilots to staff the airline at acceptable levels. Management just chooses not to, and then tells us they were "caught off guard". You might respect Brad as a businessman, and I think he's an OK one and probably overrated, but which side of the fence are you on? Even if you say you're on the the side of "good business," this crap isn't good business. Good business isn't what's going to force the inevitable "Summer 2007" this summer.

Despite what you and Team Brad might think, "Good business" is not just how much you can squeeze the labor group before it backfires. It's a fine balance and Brad wouldn't know fine balance if it jumped up and bit him in his backside. The main thing he's got going for him is our MEC, though.

Enough is enough.

 

[Flyguy1226]

Who cares? We get paid by the minute don't we? Overblock baby! I'd much rather do that flying nice equipment like the 700/900 on nice long legs during nice high block trips with nice overnights than do this 6 legs for 5 hrs credit crap in ATL with a 9hr overnight in BFE all month long on the POS 200 for min guarantee.

DTW Here I come!

See, because of guys like this I believe there will be enough people going for DTW without displacing too many "IF" it's actually going to happen. A lot of folks have a hard-on for the CR7/9....

 

[jstyle13]

90 crews by Jun 1st. Let the displacements begin...

 

[Abernathy]

See, because of guys like this I believe there will be enough people going for DTW without displacing too many "IF" it's actually going to happen. A lot of folks have a hard-on for the CR7/9....

I think it's less of a hard on for the CR7/9 and more of a desire to not do the crap the 200 does anymore. 5-6 legs a day (sometimes more) with layovers in Monroe, LA can get old. The CR7/9 out of DTW will be better than the 200 on the junior side in ATL. Esp for the newly hired, single guys/gals who will be able to afford living in the DTW suburbs area about the same as in ATL. The junior guys on the 700 in ATL are probably better off where they are.

 

[Flyguy1226]

90 crews by Jun 1st. Let the displacements begin...

Source?

 

[irija]

90 crews by Jun 1st. Let the displacements begin...

So that's 180 pilots??? Isn't that almost half of the seniority list on the 700/900? 18 aircraft???

 

[Flybywire44]

PBS has nothing to do with how the pairings were made. It only decides who they're given out to. ASA is losing money at the moment. Understand that the ASA operation is not profitable. Why? Probably because of our Maintenance department, but more so because Delta just lowered our fee for departure.

The only travesty of PBS is that it reduces the need for staffing and upgrades.

 

[aircombat]

PBS has nothing to do with how the pairings were made. It only decides who they're given out to. ASA is losing money at the moment. Understand that the ASA operation is not profitable. Why? Probably because of our Maintenance department, but more so because Delta just lowered our fee for departure.

The only travesty of PBS is that it reduces the need for staffing and upgrades.

Why would you think that PBS wouldn't affect pairing construction? I'm just surprised that people would expect that it wouldn't.