ASA Bad news is out.

[whalefat]

Because everyone at ASA is to thick headed to realize what's going on around them. Skywest is taking care of themselves as you'd expect and ASA is and will continue to be screwed... Why do you think I'm on leave..

I don't wish a furlough on anyone, but I see Skywest 200's in atl now everyday. They are flying in and out of cvg with 200's. Not to mention all of the 900's! Everything we hear at ASA is we will be doing the flying on the east, and skywest in the west. Well now skywest is in the east and west, and we are only in the east and furloughing. So, why is skywest not sharing in the pain? Sure they can't take our planes due to our cba, but they can take our flying and we have no option other than to furlough. Things are bad right now, and I understand the need to furlough, but if skywest is shifting flying to prevent there own group from furloughing at our expense then that is a serious problem with serious consequenses to the pilot morale here at asa. When morale goes south, so does performance, and then our delta contract is at risk, which will cost Inc alot more money than the possibility of a union at skywest.

 

[sweptback]

What flying is that? Specifics....Do you actually believe Skywest/ASA is purposely losing flying and trying to get more?

You must not be flying the line much. If you were, you'd notice a few SkyWest planes flying out of ATL and CVG.

I've seen CRJs, CR7s, and CR9s of SkyWest's here. We probably couldn't swing the CR9 routes, but we could definitely do the CRJ and CR7 flying they do with the current aircraft we have.

 

[JoeMerchant]

You must not be flying the line much. If you were, you'd notice a few SkyWest planes flying out of ATL and CVG.

I've seen CRJs, CR7s, and CR9s of SkyWest's here. We probably couldn't swing the CR9 routes, but we could definitely do the CRJ and CR7 flying they do with the current aircraft we have.

...actually I'm not flying that much....I have noticed some Skywest planes in ATL in CVG....

1. The CVG flying once belonged to the Comair pilots....I guess you don't mind it when we take that flying....apparantly you have already claimed it as "ours"....

2. The 900s should be at ASA...but you and your fellow hardline ALPA chest thumpers decided to take on Jerry....He won and transferred the airplanes....Suck it up and move on....It wouldn't have been my choice, but the majority decided they wanted to fight instead....

3. There is a 10% reduction in Sept....That isn't being done by Skywest...

Would one of the Skywest dispatchers that lurk please post the actual hours of 50 and 70 seat flying that Skywest does in ATL...sweptback is delusional if he thinks that will actually pick up the slack...

Sweptback, you and the other hardliners have picked a fight you can't win....Pick you battles more carefully.....

 

[crj567]

...actually I'm not flying that much....I have noticed some Skywest planes in ATL in CVG....

1. The CVG flying once belonged to the Comair pilots....I guess you don't mind it when we take that flying....apparantly you have already claimed it as "ours"....

2. The 900s should be at ASA...but you and your fellow hardline ALPA chest thumpers decided to take on Jerry....He won and transferred the airplanes....Suck it up and move on....It wouldn't have been my choice, but the majority decided they wanted to fight instead....

3. There is a 10% reduction in Sept....That isn't being done by Skywest...

Would one of the Skywest dispatchers that lurk please post the actual hours of 50 and 70 seat flying that Skywest does in ATL...sweptback is delusional if he thinks that will actually pick up the slack...

Sweptback, you and the other hardliners have picked a fight you can't win....Pick you battles more carefully.....

I think his point was very simple...

If Skywest can fly AT ALL from Atlanta, then we should be doing SOME flying out of SLC. There is simply no logicistical or common-sense reason for them to be here in the first place.

 

[JoeMerchant]

I think his point was very simple...

If Skywest can fly AT ALL from Atlanta, then we should be doing SOME flying out of SLC. There is simply no logicistical or common-sense reason for them to be here in the first place.

What's the "logical" reason we are in CVG while CMR furloughs?

Funny how ALPA cheerleaders get their panties in a wad when a Skywest plane shows up in ATL...yet look the other way in CVG.....Hypocrites!

The 900s would have been ASA crews if the hardliners hadn't try to dictate the way things would be with Jerry.....Keep sticking your finger in his eye and you aren't going to like the result....Just sayin....

 

[crj567]

What's the "logical" reason we are in CVG while CMR furloughs?

Funny how ALPA cheerleaders get their panties in a wad when a Skywest plane shows up in ATL...yet look the other way in CVG.....Hypocrites!

The 900s would have been ASA crews if the hardliners hadn't try to dictate the way things would be with Jerry.....Keep sticking your finger in his eye and you aren't going to like the result....Just sayin....

-Non-responsive to the point.

Point being that we are a Wholly-owned subsidiary of Skywest-and as such, SKYW has total control over what they do with us. Skywest decisions have no bearing on Comair.

I think the point still stands. ATL is our only base. We need more flying. Why not let us cover ATL flying, rather than SKYW hauling some bucket halfway across the country just to "poke a finger in our eye?"

Comair's situation sucks, but we have no control over DAL's decisions. SKYW has complete control over who gets the flying and who gets furloughed.

Joe-Every post you make just turns into a platitude... Why not rejoin the world one day? The RJDC is dead-and your approval or disapproval of ALPA will never bring it back.

 

[Erlanger]

Some of you think that just because a pilot works for a union carrier means that every pilot there is in favor of the union. Even though a new union vote to reaffirm ALPA at ASA may pass, I wonder what percentage would vote no.

If ASA pilots were offered a choice;

A) Continue with ASA and ALPA and being the redheaded step child of Skywest

or

B) dissolve ASA and get integrated by date of hire into Skywest pilots' senority list without a union or any chance of a union vote in the forseeable future.

Hmmm! I wonder what most of the ASA pilots would choose? And most of you at ASA on here that talk trash would probably be first in line at Skywest's door.

 

[Speedtape]

Some of you think that just because a pilot works for a union carrier means that every pilot there is in favor of the union. Even though a new union vote to reaffirm ALPA at ASA may pass, I wonder what percentage would vote no.

If ASA pilots were offered a choice;

A) Continue with ASA and ALPA and being the redheaded step child of Skywest

or

B) dissolve ASA and get integrated by date of hire into Skywest pilots' senority list without a union or any chance of a union vote in the forseeable future.

Hmmm! I wonder what most of the ASA pilots would choose? And most of you at ASA on here that talk trash would probably be first in line at Skywest's door.

B) is not on the table and never will be.


Frankly, I like option (C).

C) Delta Mec negotiates scope so that only Alpa Connectors get any future growth.

 

[Nevets]

How do you propose that ASA simply "acquire more flying"? Do you really believe they haven't been trying? How would you "acquire more flying"?

How about pro-rate flying just as SKW is doing?

Both pilot groups have been able to improve our individual work rules by leveraging off each other.

What leverage does the individual at-will pilot at Skywest have?

Keep sticking your finger in his eye and you aren't going to like the result...

Unions are the finger in his eye so you are not going to like the result anyways.

Some of you think that just because a pilot works for a union carrier means that every pilot there is in favor of the union. Even though a new union vote to reaffirm ALPA at ASA may pass, I wonder what percentage would vote no.

If ASA pilots were offered a choice;

A) Continue with ASA and ALPA and being the redheaded step child of Skywest

or

B) dissolve ASA and get integrated by date of hire into Skywest pilots' senority list without a union or any chance of a union vote in the forseeable future.

Hmmm! I wonder what most of the ASA pilots would choose? And most of you at ASA on here that talk trash would probably be first in line at Skywest's door.

JA would not go for that anyways.

 

[CFI2766]

There is flying being done in ATL by SkyWest that ASA could do. We don't even need their airplanes, we have plenty of spares.

I hear ya', but why then are our D0 and A14 numbers where they are?

 

[buscap]

Some of you think that just because a pilot works for a union carrier means that every pilot there is in favor of the union. Even though a new union vote to reaffirm ALPA at ASA may pass, I wonder what percentage would vote no.

If ASA pilots were offered a choice;

A) Continue with ASA and ALPA and being the redheaded step child of Skywest

or

B) dissolve ASA and get integrated by date of hire into Skywest pilots' senority list without a union or any chance of a union vote in the forseeable future.

Hmmm! I wonder what most of the ASA pilots would choose? And most of you at ASA on here that talk trash would probably be first in line at Skywest's door.

Why would we give up ALPA and merge with Skywest? Our new seniority list would immediately become useless without union negotiated contractual provisions?

 

[XPOO]

Here's what I can find:

Only one SKW aircraft overnights in ATL, a 900. Only six 900s currently fly into or out of ATL on a daily basis. Cities seved by those 900s: BIL, COS, ELP, HOU, IAH, IND, MKE, ORD, and PIT for a grand total of 22 flights.

Only one 200 flies into and out of ATL on a daily basis to CMH and STL for a grand total of four flights.

Only four 200s fly into and/or out of CVG and LGA on a daily basis to CMH, LEX, OKC, OMA or YYZ for a grand total of 20 flights. One of these 200s does those four flights from/to ATL.

One 900 flies into or out of CVG on a daily basis to IAH, MSP or ORD for a grand total of four flights.

 

[WayBack]

Why would we give up ALPA and merge with Skywest? Our new seniority list would immediately become useless without union negotiated contractual provisions?

Your contract is garbage to begin with. It's not even worth the paper it's written on.
Look at what is going on, ALPA pilots are losing their jobs to other ALPA pilots who fly the same equipment, but for cheaper. Sounds like a real solid Union to me!!!!
Just pay your dues and don't ask any questions.

 

[Tarzan]

Your contract is garbage to begin with. It's not even worth the paper it's written on.
Look at what is going on, ALPA pilots are losing their jobs to other ALPA pilots who fly the same equipment, but for cheaper. Sounds like a real solid Union to me!!!!
Just pay your dues and don't ask any questions.

Now that is just dumb. SW pilots got their new goodies after the ASA contract was ratified. Obviously, it's worth something to your group as in money in your pocket. While ALPA has it's faults and there a bunch, to say the SW group got nothing, well you can't fix stupid.

 

[SkyNation]

I used to think SKYW had a great plan-they had a vision, they would lead the regional industry.

then who is leading?

 

[Abernathy]

I hear ya', but why then are our D0 and A14 numbers where they are?

We have almost no control over D-0 or A-14. It's easy for SKW to say they have great performance out of ATL when they have a handful of planes to deal with here and park on A and B. We have well over a hundred and we park in D (and sometimes C if you're a 70/76 seater) at the busiest airport in the world. If we were based out of SLC, we would see SKW numbers.

Delta knows this, they aren't dumb. Ever see DL performance out of ATL? They're not much better.

 

[buscap]

Your contract is garbage to begin with. It's not even worth the paper it's written on.
Look at what is going on, ALPA pilots are losing their jobs to other ALPA pilots who fly the same equipment, but for cheaper. Sounds like a real solid Union to me!!!!
Just pay your dues and don't ask any questions.

There is not one single Skywest pilot who is stupid enough to think that as a pilot group, they would be where they are without the threat of a union coming on property.

As a pilot group, they are freeloading on the efforts of unionized pilots.

It's that simple and every one of them knows it. They are getting the benefits without paying the dues or sweat. That's fine to a point, but I think they could do better with the union on property. They wouldn't have to wait for the rest of us to raise the bar. They could be part of the process.

They are just as damaging to the industry, if not more, than the shortsighted pansies at Mesa who have allowed that farse of a pilot group to stain the very idea of what a union is.

Just as an example; Wouldn't it be nice to have had some input into that PBS system at Skywest? And now because you guys bend over like prison girls, our PBS negotiating position is weaker.

Form an in-house maybe, but at least do something besides free-ride!!!

 

[ParrotheadGTI]

Here's what I can find:

Only one SKW aircraft overnights in ATL, a 900. Only six 900s currently fly into or out of ATL on a daily basis. Cities seved by those 900s: BIL, COS, ELP, HOU, IAH, IND, MKE, ORD, and PIT for a grand total of 22 flights.

Only one 200 flies into and out of ATL on a daily basis to CMH and STL for a grand total of four flights.

Only four 200s fly into and/or out of CVG and LGA on a daily basis to CMH, LEX, OKC, OMA or YYZ for a grand total of 20 flights. One of these 200s does those four flights from/to ATL.

One 900 flies into or out of CVG on a daily basis to IAH, MSP or ORD for a grand total of four flights.

That's twenty-six too many flights out of ATL on a daily basis...

 

[CFI2766]

We have almost no control over D-0 or A-14. It's easy for SKW to say they have great performance out of ATL when they have a handful of planes to deal with here and park on A and B. We have well over a hundred and we park in D (and sometimes C if you're a 70/76 seater) at the busiest airport in the world. If we were based out of SLC, we would see SKW numbers.

Delta knows this, they aren't dumb. Ever see DL performance out of ATL? They're not much better.

All in all, I agree you you. In an indirect way, that's kinda my point. As pilots, we are already doing everything we can to make these metrics look good for ASA. I think that when the fall schedule drops our hours, we will once again see improvements in our performance numbers.

It's my hope that Delta realizes the drop in our numbers is more atributed to their schedule and their ground handling than our services as a regional.

 

[waterski45]

Here's what I can find:

Only one SKW aircraft overnights in ATL, a 900. Only six 900s currently fly into or out of ATL on a daily basis. Cities seved by those 900s: BIL, COS, ELP, HOU, IAH, IND, MKE, ORD, and PIT for a grand total of 22 flights.

Only one 200 flies into and out of ATL on a daily basis to CMH and STL for a grand total of four flights.

Only four 200s fly into and/or out of CVG and LGA on a daily basis to CMH, LEX, OKC, OMA or YYZ for a grand total of 20 flights. One of these 200s does those four flights from/to ATL.

One 900 flies into or out of CVG on a daily basis to IAH, MSP or ORD for a grand total of four flights.

Hardly enough to make up for the furloughs.

I know us flying in ATL and CVG causes heartburn for some guys at ASA, but the argument that if ASA was doing the flying instead of OO would have prevented the furloughs isn't holding.

Regardless, I wish ASA could have found some flying to compensate for Delta's reduction in block hours (pro rate flying for DL, or pick up some UAL stuff).

 

[LazyLightnin']

Agreed-completely..

I used to think SKYW had a great plan-they had a vision, they would lead the regional industry.

They do, they do, and they most definitely will. The reason you don't see it is because you are envisioning a future that includes an ASA. Skywests' vision is pretty damn brilliant when think about it, and their clout will only continue to multiply in the regional industry.

 

[WayBack]

There is not one single Skywest pilot who is stupid enough to think that as a pilot group, they would be where they are without the threat of a union coming on property.

As a pilot group, they are freeloading on the efforts of unionized pilots.

It's that simple and every one of them knows it. They are getting the benefits without paying the dues or sweat. That's fine to a point, but I think they could do better with the union on property. They wouldn't have to wait for the rest of us to raise the bar. They could be part of the process.

They are just as damaging to the industry, if not more, than the shortsighted pansies at Mesa who have allowed that farse of a pilot group to stain the very idea of what a union is.

Just as an example; Wouldn't it be nice to have had some input into that PBS system at Skywest? And now because you guys bend over like prison girls, our PBS negotiating position is weaker.

Form an in-house maybe, but at least do something besides free-ride!!!

Give me a break. They would be misserable with ALPA on the property, just like every other ALPA carrier out there.
They have more than most regionals out there, especially when it comes to pay and days off. They have more nights at home than any other airline out there. The management keeps the employees happy, and the employees in return treat the passengers with the utmost respect.


As for ALPA fighting for the pilots, again, give me a break. That washed up, dead union is fading fast. They won't be around much longer as more pilots see eye to eye with the USAir guys who voted them off the property. ALPA has done crap in the last 20 yrs. They're still "fighting" for the same things they were back in the 60's and 70's. Flight time, duty time and rest will never change, but ALPA has been "fighting" for this for the last 30yrs. It's all smoke in mirrors.
I love how they have these meetings to resolve these issues in Las Vegas, Rome and the nice little week long fishing trip in Canada.

The SkyWest pilots have it good and ALPA guys are just jealous.
SkyWest guys, keep ALPO off your property!

 

[buscap]

They have more than most regionals out there, especially when it comes to pay and days off. They have more nights at home than any other airline out there. The management keeps the employees happy, and the employees in return treat the passengers with the utmost respect. !

And all Skywest pilots know they owe all those things to ALPA or other airline unions.

Like I asked Joe, what would their pay and QOL be without the bar being raised at the union carriers over the years?

 

[Nevets]

Hardly enough to make up for the furloughs.

I know us flying in ATL and CVG causes heartburn for some guys at ASA, but the argument that if ASA was doing the flying instead of OO would have prevented the furloughs isn't holding.

Regardless, I wish ASA could have found some flying to compensate for Delta's reduction in block hours (pro rate flying for DL, or pick up some UAL stuff).

If it would prevent ONE furlough, then its one furlough too many for Skywest to do those flights, IMHO.

Give me a break. They would be misserable with ALPA on the property, just like every other ALPA carrier out there.
They have more than most regionals out there, especially when it comes to pay and days off. They have more nights at home than any other airline out there. The management keeps the employees happy, and the employees in return treat the passengers with the utmost respect.


As for ALPA fighting for the pilots, again, give me a break. That washed up, dead union is fading fast. They won't be around much longer as more pilots see eye to eye with the USAir guys who voted them off the property. ALPA has done crap in the last 20 yrs. They're still "fighting" for the same things they were back in the 60's and 70's. Flight time, duty time and rest will never change, but ALPA has been "fighting" for this for the last 30yrs. It's all smoke in mirrors.
I love how they have these meetings to resolve these issues in Las Vegas, Rome and the nice little week long fishing trip in Canada.

The SkyWest pilots have it good and ALPA guys are just jealous.
SkyWest guys, keep ALPO off your property!

And what has any Skywest pilot fought for that did any good to the profession?

 

[Explosive]

ASA does NOT have to have 80% of ATL flying

Shut up you idiot. We have a contract, do your job. ASA does 80% of all DAL regional ops out of ATL. The cannot take us below that...

You have a contract, do your job.

Unfortunately for ASA, Skywest is a little smarter than that: do you think they would really complete a 400+ million dollar deal without covering their butts?

From the 2007 form 10-K for Skywest, Inc. (annual report):

We believe SkyWest Airlines and ASA present opportunities for growth through our two geographically-focused regional airline platforms—SkyWest Airlines in the Western United States and ASA in the Eastern United States. SkyWest Airlines provides regional airline service for United in Los Angles, San Francisco, Chicago and Denver. We also provide the vast majority of regional airline service for Delta in Atlanta, its most important eastern hub, and Salt Lake City, its most important western hub. We have separate, but substantially similar, long-term fixed-fee Delta Connection Agreements with Delta for both SkyWest Airlines and ASA. We also control 29 gates in the Hartsfield-Jackson International Airport located in Atlanta, from which we currently provide service to Delta. Delta has agreed that ASA and SkyWest Airlines will operate, collectively, not less than 80% of all Delta Connection program departures scheduled at Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport.​

 

[crj567]

then who is leading?

Are you retarded? Seriously?

Maybe the regional airline now leading the industry just bought Frontier and Midwest and gutted both those companies to make tons of money. Last I checked, Skywest was not that airline.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Yea- I'm thinking you're right. It's easy to get irritated and get fired up over it, but in the end, we've got it alright. Most of the other airlines have furloughed far more than we have- or will, I feel.

Bottom line is we've got to keep our performance up in order to get the folks on the street back. It's not a guarantee, but it's a better shot than shutting the place down in a hissy fit.

However, I would like to hear some straight talk on why ASA wasn't good enough for Salt Lake, but how SkyWest is good enough for Atlanta, on what seems to be a growing basis.

Unfortunately, I am hearing that Delta is eying close to 2000 furloughs- hope this isn't true. Frankly, it's a mess no one needs, especially given that Delta is the most likely candidate for hiring and our source of attrition. On a side note- it may actually drive the Mesaba and Compass cost structures up enough to help us attain our 80% lock in with Delta. Who knows what's going to happen, but so far, most of us seem to be weathering the storm, for now....................

That number was tossed out in a non-company e-mail that was personal not part of any plan.
The post SOC staffing looked to have a surplus of about 2000 pilots. That number will change with a few announcements that are coming. It also went on to further state that we would have the early Aug displacement bid and one more to set up for furloughs.
Best guess is if we did pull the trigger it would be a little less than 500. The recovery is going to take place in 2011, and that is just not enough time to break even. The simple ROI on a furlough is 22 months. Really it is about 40 months if you cost out the 6 seats, and a few other contractual huddles.

They opted not to furlough a few weeks ago which floored me. I was sure we would see it. The constant delaying of that fact puts us farther and farther away from being able to do it.

 

[JumpersAway]

That number was tossed out in a non-company e-mail that was personal not part of any plan.
The post SOC staffing looked to have a surplus of about 2000 pilots. That number will change with a few announcements that are coming. It also went on to further state that we would have the early Aug displacement bid and one more to set up for furloughs.
Best guess is if we did pull the trigger it would be a little less than 500. The recovery is going to take place in 2011, and that is just not enough time to break even. The simple ROI on a furlough is 22 months. Really it is about 40 months if you cost out the 6 seats, and a few other contractual huddles.

They opted not to furlough a few weeks ago which floored me. I was sure we would see it. The constant delaying of that fact puts us farther and farther away from being able to do it.

Glad to hear it. Also, with some of the rumors I'm hearing and from what's been in the paper, it may not be such a bad idea for Delta to remain a little heavy on staffing leading into the winter.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

There was an Official statement made by our VP of Flt Ops on Friday night. In stated that no furloughs are imminent. They stated that though we are overstaffed we will deal with this over staffing with the methods available to us in the PWA. SIL (55 hr of pay and off for the month) and reduced line values. We will be quite fat staffed this winter, but it will allow is to do a lot of the training that will be needed for the first wave of the base realignment.
They went on to state that they can never take furloughs off the table, but right now it would not makes sense.

I have been told that RA wants to keep the extra staffing for exactly what you are hinting at. As these other companies start to shrink to survive we will be in position to quickly fill the holes. I do see that coming and sooner than people think.

A few thing are very close to coming out, and when they do the staffing models are looking at being even. That is good for the bottom half of the list.

 

[Tarzan]

Great news.