Are Low time new hires at regionals safe?

[KeroseneSnorter]

From the left seat it sure looks like the flight schools don't teach x-wind landings anymore. And in some cases not at all!

Not a check airman right now, but have been in past, my basic rule is "would I put my wife and kid on a airplane with this guy?" for criteria of passing the ride, ioe whatever.
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My wife and I have decided to forgo any trips that involve RJ's right now.

In the words of a CK airman at his 4th airline (regional) waiting on recall to his airline......"They are scaring the ******************** out of me out there."

 

[Draginass]

Don't the Airforce guys only have 200hrs when they start flying the T-38's? It's not quantity that counts it's quality of training.

Actually, I think it's more like 120 hours when T38 phase is started.

However, green USAF pilots, while low time, have extremely rigorous training, plus are very closely supervised daily by other squadron pilots who know them personally and fly with them regularly. Weaknesses are easily identified and can be remedied.

In an airline environment, the incompetent and weak can float around the system for extended periods of time virtually unsupervised. Few captains will take responsibility to make calls to the chief pilot and identify problem copilots. They just fly the trip, compensate for the inadequacy in the right seat, and pass 'em on to the next captain.

And the chief pilots? Well, they see problem copilots as the captains problem. The chief pilot's problem is to keep the seat filled.

It is management's responsibility to hire and train competent, qualified, and EXPERIENCED pilots. They are failing at this. It should not be the captain's responsibility to compensate for the failures of highly-paid executives to do their job. However, management, as always, will transfer the responsibility of their failures down the line. The failure on our part as pilots is that we allow them to do that.

Until regional captains have the cajones to stand up and just say NO MORE, then you can expect more of the same.

 

[Flyerdan]

They log PIC time, not instructor time!!! That doesn't relinquish the fact that the FO should have a certain amount of capability and experience to assist the CA. Its a 2 person crew, not a single pilot operation.

This "they're logging PIC time, not instructor time" argument doesn't hold much weight for me. How you log your time and what you call it is an FAA thing. What the requirements of your job are is something the airline should step up and define. Given the current state of the industry, I think regional airlines should hold captains' boards, interview upgrade candidates based on their capacity for both PIC & training/mentoring abilities. I see too many captains who feel they are entitled to the left seat simply because their seniority number came up. The regional airlines should really demand more than that.

 

[rumpletumbler]

At the risk of sounding like an idiot I'm going to join in.

I'm a 500 hour wonder. I've never flown a regional jet but I have about 25 hours flying (not just riding) in CE-550's/501's and about 75 hours flying (not just riding) SA-226's. I say this because for my total time I find it weird and unusual that I have time in these aircraft. It kind of blows my mind that folks with my time level are flying RJ's.

That said, for me I can tell you that I don't think for me the flying would be an issue. I believe I could fly an RJ without issue after training.

What would bother me and what 'did' bother me doing the flying that I spoke about above (and I wasn't alone) was my lack of real world experience.

I didn't and don't yet have the real world weather experience that I believe was needed nor did I have the experience that only time can provide that I think one should possess to fly with all those folks in the back.

I may be wrong but it seems the experience you get from entering that job at that level of experience would be perverted to a degree and when you become a Captain then that becomes a problem.

It's like you're skipping the process where you, yourself gain experience in the decision making and learning process by watching a variety of others make decisions.

Where is the confidence and knowledge in that for yourself?

I may be unclear or wrong but I thought I'd throw my opinion out there.

 

[luvz2fli]

At the risk of sounding like an idiot I'm going to join in.

I'm a 500 hour wonder. I've never flown a regional jet but I have about 25 hours flying (not just riding) in CE-550's/501's and about 75 hours flying (not just riding) SA-226's. I say this because for my total time I find it weird and unusual that I have time in these aircraft. It kind of blows my mind that folks with my time level are flying RJ's.

That said, for me I can tell you that I don't think for me the flying would be an issue. I believe I could fly an RJ without issue after training.

What would bother me and what 'did' bother me doing the flying that I spoke about above (and I wasn't alone) was my lack of real world experience.

I didn't and don't yet have the real world weather experience that I believe was needed nor did I have the experience that only time can provide that I think one should possess to fly with all those folks in the back.

I may be wrong but it seems the experience you get from entering that job at that level of experience would be perverted to a degree and when you become a Captain then that becomes a problem.

It's like you're skipping the process where you, yourself gain experience in the decision making and learning process by watching a variety of others make decisions.

Where is the confidence and knowledge in that for yourself?

I may be unclear or wrong but I thought I'd throw my opinion out there.

Well said! That's the problem. Too many of these folks don't have the experience you speak of. They are 300 hour wonder pilots flying in the right seat while their captains a lot of times are brand new just made enough time to make captain types of guys. Nice post though.

 

[LowlyPropCapt]

At the risk of sounding like an idiot I'm going to join in.

I'm a 500 hour wonder. I've never flown a regional jet but I have about 25 hours flying (not just riding) in CE-550's/501's and about 75 hours flying (not just riding) SA-226's. I say this because for my total time I find it weird and unusual that I have time in these aircraft. It kind of blows my mind that folks with my time level are flying RJ's.

That said, for me I can tell you that I don't think for me the flying would be an issue. I believe I could fly an RJ without issue after training.

What would bother me and what 'did' bother me doing the flying that I spoke about above (and I wasn't alone) was my lack of real world experience.

I didn't and don't yet have the real world weather experience that I believe was needed nor did I have the experience that only time can provide that I think one should possess to fly with all those folks in the back.

I may be wrong but it seems the experience you get from entering that job at that level of experience would be perverted to a degree and when you become a Captain then that becomes a problem.

It's like you're skipping the process where you, yourself gain experience in the decision making and learning process by watching a variety of others make decisions.

Where is the confidence and knowledge in that for yourself?

I may be unclear or wrong but I thought I'd throw my opinion out there.

Keep this humble attitude and you'll do fine no matter what you fly. Nice post.

 

[OPECJet]

Very nice post. You're wise beyond your hours.

 

[waveflyer]

i've heard the argument before: making the leap will always be a leap- what does another several hundred hours of instructing do for me? - As a regional captain you will instruct all the time. The type of flying is so different, i agree- to a point- that the flying experience isn't the valuable thing-- but how to communicate and teach is- not to mention be able to make decisions yourself w/o another to lean on. Go into the right seat right after flight school- having never been the authority once in the flight deck- and then expect everyone to hop into that role as a captain is naive. No judgement on the person- but these are the worst FO's- and the ones who struggle in upgrade if they make it at all. They are too used to deferring in the flight deck. Nothing replaces being the decision maker- Any monkey can handle the controls-- it's judgement that makes a pilot.

 

[waveflyer]

you are wise beyond your hours-
Skimping on your training and development will hound you your whole career-- part of that is making career decisions that will develop your judgement- not just get you in a uniform to play 'airline pilot' as soon as possible.
With that attitude, I predict you'll have a long long time to enjoy the uniform- and much more satisfying experiences when you go through training events the rest of your life. I love seeing pilots thinking long term.

 

[ALIMBO]

As a low time pilot with the regionals about a year away I'm scared to say that I don't feel like I could really do my job competently with the little time I have. But at the same time I don't really want to wait until I have more time and the apply a big issue is I'm afraid that by the time I go to look for a job they will all be gone and then Ill be stuck instructing for awhile. It's real 50 50 to me and I'm kinda stuck. For the safety of myself and others I don't think I'm ready to make such a huge jump but then again people are doing it every day so I guess I should be ok right? I do know that I wont take an upgrade to captain even if I meet the the time requirement I def cant see myself taking that responsibility with just a couple thousand hours. I think personally it take at least double that to be able to safely make decisions on the half of the 50-70 people behind you.