APA Pilots polled. No to age 60.

[Occam's Razor]

So....we're to understand that these pilots were over 60???

Keep up!

The premise is that we are inexorably obligated to mirror the policies and rules of ICAO airlines because they are safer...and their breath is fresh & minty.

Ain't so.

The Asian and European airlines certainly haven't cornered the market on aviation forehead-slap-inducing actions, but there is no compelling reason to do what they do just because they do it!

 

[ironspud]

Useless information. A feather duster has more power and influence than the APA.

 

[Falconjet]

At least they are taking a stand for something.

FJ

 

[doer42]

"Safety of the Traveling Public".....but today we have American citizens flying on Airlines where the PIC is over age 60...in U.S. airspace, with the approval of the American government...and doing it safely...every single day.

I noticed that the APA said absolutely nothing about that. Does that mean that they are OK with it?

What about the Canadian ALPA carriers that allow the PIC to be over age 60...and they fly in U.S. airspace.....?

I guess there aren't enough fingers to plug all the leaks in the dike.

Tejas

Typical response from an oldtimer. Shoots before he aims. How many Americans do you think are actually flying on foreign carriers with pilots over 60 since they just changed the rule recently? What, did the Europeans fire all the under 60 crowd. Probably less than .1% with the thousands of flights a day operated by U.S. carriers. We should do it since the EU has. Good reason! Maybe we should build a Maginal line to keep out terrorist too. It worked for the french. This is not about age discrimination or safety. Just greed..on both sides of the fence.

D

 

[Freight Dog]

There ya have it Rez... and THIS is why ALPA-PAC won't see a friggin' penny from me.

 

[luckytohaveajob]

APA should start an expansion drive with ALPA carriers

APA needs to represent pilots at ALPA carriers.

Why pay ALPA 2% to misrepresent the majorities wishes because John Prater wants to give up without a fight because he thinks its a done deal according to his defeatist ideology.

Join APA!
Join APA!
Join APA!
Join APA!
Join APA!
Join APA!

APA does represent AMR pilots and the majority of ALPA pilots.

APA also has negotiated one of the best deals in the last five years.

 

[bendover]

Why doesn't alpa do a similiar poll now, I bet it would be about the same results. Why doesn't alpa do what the majority want? instead of pandering to the vocal minority? 7 to 1 in favor of keeping the status quo. that speaks volumes. Get some balls and do the right thing alpa.

 

[AAflyer]

APA needs to represent pilots at ALPA carriers.

Why pay ALPA 2% to misrepresent the majorities wishes because John Prater wants to give up without a fight because he thinks its a done deal according to his defeatist ideology.

Join APA!
Join APA!
Join APA!
Join APA!
Join APA!
Join APA!

APA does represent AMR pilots and the majority of ALPA pilots.

APA also has negotiated one of the best deals in the last five years.

Thank you for your comments. I can assure you we have our set of problems however when I posted this I posted it as an experiment in unionism.

Not wether age 60 would go through, or the merits of it. Personally I am against it. What I am impressed with, is we polled our members, tallied the count, and then the BOD and President represented what the membership wanted.

What I still think we need is some solidarity. I would like SWAPA polled. I would like to see ALPA carriers polled, not just a handful BUT ALL ALPA carriers. What does the NPA think, or IPA? Whe need polling at ALL airlines, and then if and only if we have a majority at each of these places we can all go to the hill as a group.

I would think it would be hard for the FAA or Congress to do anything if the majority of ALL US airlines said we are not interested in raising the age.

There is strength in numbers, regardless of union affiliation. In the end so many of us are fighting the same battles. SCOPE, PENSION, WAGES, OUTSOURCING, and CABOTAGE.

CAPA is a group of airlines consisting of the pilots of UPS,AA,Air Tan, SWA, ABX.

Would it be that hard to have a group that inlcuded ALPA. We each have our own unions that negotiate and represent respective airlines, however wether you work at JB, SWA, or UAL and every airline in between future issues like cabotage will impact all of us. We need a true national voice to fight issues like this.

Regards,

AAflyer

 

[luckytohaveajob]

AAflyer, my issues with ALPA go way beyond age 60.

During the last three years I agree with every APA concern:

APA is concerned with management bonus payments.
APA is concerned with flying more than 14 hours for nothing.
APA kept the "A" plan pension.
APA wants its company to make it.
APA represents its majority.

APA needs to complete the mission it started in the late 1960's when it split from ALPA and represent MANY major airlines. ALPA needs a lot of competition to kick it in the butt and represent pilots, not airline managements or union officials in Herdon, VA. ALPA does not act according to right and wrong any longer, ALPA weighs the political issues and goes whatever way the wind is blowing regardless of the effect on its membership.

ALPA represents ALPA not pilots.

 

[CitationLover]

His job is to represent the interests of the pilots and the pilots have spoken.

and that job is so easy even a caveman could do it. oh wait, hunter is a caveman. aa pilots, please do not reelect the idiot.

 

[luckytohaveajob]

and that job is so easy even a caveman could do it. oh wait, hunter is a caveman. aa pilots, please do not reelect the idiot.

And unionism isn't brain surgery. Pilots think they are so smart and then the pilots get out smarted time and time again and just end up looking stupid.

Mechanics and Flight Attendants don't negotiate years on end for a contract that is less than the duration of the negotiations. Mechanics ground airplanes and after three days of threating management get a good deal. FA threaten to walk and management believes them and either makes a deal or finds a judge to keep the FA's from acting.

But pilots just get out smarted. I want a caveman for a union leader. Cavemen act decisively.

 

[AAflyer]

AAflyer, my issues with ALPA go way beyond age 60.

During the last three years I agree with every APA concern:

APA is concerned with management bonus payments.
APA is concerned with flying more than 14 hours for nothing.
APA kept the "A" plan pension.
APA wants its company to make it.
APA represents its majority.

APA needs to complete the mission it started in the late 1960's when it split from ALPA and represent MANY major airlines. ALPA needs a lot of competition to kick it in the butt and represent pilots, not airline managements or union officials in Herdon, VA. ALPA does not act according to right and wrong any longer, ALPA weighs the political issues and goes whatever way the wind is blowing regardless of the effect on its membership.

ALPA represents ALPA not pilots.

I agree with you, I have been an ALPA member. It has become an institution. (However a union is better than none, and so much is still done by a select few who are elected.) However while we helped save teh company in 2003 we were dupped. We did not need to give the amount we gave. We were starting to become aligned with management and they would have taken more from us. That has seemed to stop.

I can say the JOB to represent is easier when you are dedicted to one group. We do have our own political infighting etc, but I guess in the end almost all the represent us want that they believe is best for us, the pilots of AA.

Thanks again for your support, I think we will be the only ones fighting the age 60 issue. In the end it won;t be much if a fight with some others remaining quiet.

Citation,

I think Hunter will be gone. There was a split among the top 3 presidental candidates. If you took the 2 against Hunter they exceeded him by almost 500 votes.

Regards,

AA

 

[Vne]

At least they are taking a stand for something.

Add that to the historic benchmarks of the profession List:
1)B-scale
2)Scope relief for Small jet operators (Eagle)
3) Staple is past practice for ALL future airline acquisitions
4) The only reason other airlines exist is because APA pilots cant do
everything....yet
5)If the APA is the high water mark of unionism then this profession
isn't dead its mummified.

 

[AAflyer]

Add that to the historic benchmarks of the profession List:
1)B-scale
2)Scope relief for Small jet operators (Eagle)
3) Staple is past practice for ALL future airline acquisitions
4) The only reason other airlines exist is because APA pilots cant do
everything....yet
5)If the APA is the high water mark of unionism then this profession
isn't dead its mummified.

Scope relief,

Ya, we were not the first. DAL was, and as of today almost 50% oftheir ASMs are flown be the RJs. We followed suit like everyone else, yet we have less 70seaters than ALL legacies except CAL. We also have less ASM flown than most all legacies.

B scale actually introduced as teh Blue Sky Agreement at UAL, perverted by Robert Crandall. Lastly many of your pilots were stapled, yet many when it happened were not. I will dispute your treatment was bad, but there are other cases poor treatment in the history of this industry. Every airline has added to in one or another, and one time or another the demise of our profession.

Regards,

AAflyer

Out of curiosity, I am not going to bother, I know where this headed, rather predictable but surprised it hasn't come up earlier.

 

[luckytohaveajob]

Add that to the historic benchmarks of the profession List:
1) B-scale
2) Scope relief for Small jet operators (Eagle)
3) Staple is past practice for ALL future airline acquisitions
4) The only reason other airlines exist is because APA pilots cant do
everything....yet
5)If the APA is the high water mark of unionism then this profession
isn't dead its mummified.

And what did ALPA do concerning:

1) B-scale, ALPA allowed it at many carriers
2) Scope-- ALPA National failed miserably concerning RJ scope issues
3) Staple-- ALPA folded on the TWA issue with APA. ALPA national wasn't concerning with TWA?
4) Increasing standards--All ALPA contracts have a lower watermark than the APA contract.
5) Age 60- ALPA doesn't have a position. APA has a definable position.

APA issue for issue represents working pilots in todays environment.

APA has its problems but understands it purpose of protecting the careers of its pilots while ALPA is lost in its political swamp. ALPA has forgotten its purpose of protecting ALPA pilots after repeated failure as evidenced during the last six years.

When an ALPA negotiator, as I have seen many times, starts arguing the companies position, discounts todays issues because he knows the future, and is not concerned with managements pay, its shows ALPA is not concerned with that pilot groups problems.

When has ALPA national rejected an MECs TA vote because it fails to meet ALPA national standards? NEVER. ALPA national will sign anything.

ALPA national stands for nothing.