APA Pilots polled. No to age 60.

[luckytohaveajob]

APA should start an expansion drive with ALPA carriers

APA needs to represent pilots at ALPA carriers.

Why pay ALPA 2% to misrepresent the majorities wishes because John Prater wants to give up without a fight because he thinks its a done deal according to his defeatist ideology.

Join APA!
Join APA!
Join APA!
Join APA!
Join APA!
Join APA!

APA does represent AMR pilots and the majority of ALPA pilots.

APA also has negotiated one of the best deals in the last five years.

 

[bendover]

Why doesn't alpa do a similiar poll now, I bet it would be about the same results. Why doesn't alpa do what the majority want? instead of pandering to the vocal minority? 7 to 1 in favor of keeping the status quo. that speaks volumes. Get some balls and do the right thing alpa.

 

[AAflyer]

APA needs to represent pilots at ALPA carriers.

Why pay ALPA 2% to misrepresent the majorities wishes because John Prater wants to give up without a fight because he thinks its a done deal according to his defeatist ideology.

Join APA!
Join APA!
Join APA!
Join APA!
Join APA!
Join APA!

APA does represent AMR pilots and the majority of ALPA pilots.

APA also has negotiated one of the best deals in the last five years.

Thank you for your comments. I can assure you we have our set of problems however when I posted this I posted it as an experiment in unionism.

Not wether age 60 would go through, or the merits of it. Personally I am against it. What I am impressed with, is we polled our members, tallied the count, and then the BOD and President represented what the membership wanted.

What I still think we need is some solidarity. I would like SWAPA polled. I would like to see ALPA carriers polled, not just a handful BUT ALL ALPA carriers. What does the NPA think, or IPA? Whe need polling at ALL airlines, and then if and only if we have a majority at each of these places we can all go to the hill as a group.

I would think it would be hard for the FAA or Congress to do anything if the majority of ALL US airlines said we are not interested in raising the age.

There is strength in numbers, regardless of union affiliation. In the end so many of us are fighting the same battles. SCOPE, PENSION, WAGES, OUTSOURCING, and CABOTAGE.

CAPA is a group of airlines consisting of the pilots of UPS,AA,Air Tan, SWA, ABX.

Would it be that hard to have a group that inlcuded ALPA. We each have our own unions that negotiate and represent respective airlines, however wether you work at JB, SWA, or UAL and every airline in between future issues like cabotage will impact all of us. We need a true national voice to fight issues like this.

Regards,

AAflyer

 

[luckytohaveajob]

AAflyer, my issues with ALPA go way beyond age 60.

During the last three years I agree with every APA concern:

APA is concerned with management bonus payments.
APA is concerned with flying more than 14 hours for nothing.
APA kept the "A" plan pension.
APA wants its company to make it.
APA represents its majority.

APA needs to complete the mission it started in the late 1960's when it split from ALPA and represent MANY major airlines. ALPA needs a lot of competition to kick it in the butt and represent pilots, not airline managements or union officials in Herdon, VA. ALPA does not act according to right and wrong any longer, ALPA weighs the political issues and goes whatever way the wind is blowing regardless of the effect on its membership.

ALPA represents ALPA not pilots.

 

[CitationLover]

His job is to represent the interests of the pilots and the pilots have spoken.

and that job is so easy even a caveman could do it. oh wait, hunter is a caveman. aa pilots, please do not reelect the idiot.

 

[luckytohaveajob]

and that job is so easy even a caveman could do it. oh wait, hunter is a caveman. aa pilots, please do not reelect the idiot.

And unionism isn't brain surgery. Pilots think they are so smart and then the pilots get out smarted time and time again and just end up looking stupid.

Mechanics and Flight Attendants don't negotiate years on end for a contract that is less than the duration of the negotiations. Mechanics ground airplanes and after three days of threating management get a good deal. FA threaten to walk and management believes them and either makes a deal or finds a judge to keep the FA's from acting.

But pilots just get out smarted. I want a caveman for a union leader. Cavemen act decisively.

 

[AAflyer]

AAflyer, my issues with ALPA go way beyond age 60.

During the last three years I agree with every APA concern:

APA is concerned with management bonus payments.
APA is concerned with flying more than 14 hours for nothing.
APA kept the "A" plan pension.
APA wants its company to make it.
APA represents its majority.

APA needs to complete the mission it started in the late 1960's when it split from ALPA and represent MANY major airlines. ALPA needs a lot of competition to kick it in the butt and represent pilots, not airline managements or union officials in Herdon, VA. ALPA does not act according to right and wrong any longer, ALPA weighs the political issues and goes whatever way the wind is blowing regardless of the effect on its membership.

ALPA represents ALPA not pilots.

I agree with you, I have been an ALPA member. It has become an institution. (However a union is better than none, and so much is still done by a select few who are elected.) However while we helped save teh company in 2003 we were dupped. We did not need to give the amount we gave. We were starting to become aligned with management and they would have taken more from us. That has seemed to stop.

I can say the JOB to represent is easier when you are dedicted to one group. We do have our own political infighting etc, but I guess in the end almost all the represent us want that they believe is best for us, the pilots of AA.

Thanks again for your support, I think we will be the only ones fighting the age 60 issue. In the end it won;t be much if a fight with some others remaining quiet.

Citation,

I think Hunter will be gone. There was a split among the top 3 presidental candidates. If you took the 2 against Hunter they exceeded him by almost 500 votes.

Regards,

AA

 

[Vne]

At least they are taking a stand for something.

Add that to the historic benchmarks of the profession List:
1)B-scale
2)Scope relief for Small jet operators (Eagle)
3) Staple is past practice for ALL future airline acquisitions
4) The only reason other airlines exist is because APA pilots cant do
everything....yet
5)If the APA is the high water mark of unionism then this profession
isn't dead its mummified.

 

[AAflyer]

Add that to the historic benchmarks of the profession List:
1)B-scale
2)Scope relief for Small jet operators (Eagle)
3) Staple is past practice for ALL future airline acquisitions
4) The only reason other airlines exist is because APA pilots cant do
everything....yet
5)If the APA is the high water mark of unionism then this profession
isn't dead its mummified.

Scope relief,

Ya, we were not the first. DAL was, and as of today almost 50% oftheir ASMs are flown be the RJs. We followed suit like everyone else, yet we have less 70seaters than ALL legacies except CAL. We also have less ASM flown than most all legacies.

B scale actually introduced as teh Blue Sky Agreement at UAL, perverted by Robert Crandall. Lastly many of your pilots were stapled, yet many when it happened were not. I will dispute your treatment was bad, but there are other cases poor treatment in the history of this industry. Every airline has added to in one or another, and one time or another the demise of our profession.

Regards,

AAflyer

Out of curiosity, I am not going to bother, I know where this headed, rather predictable but surprised it hasn't come up earlier.

 

[luckytohaveajob]

Add that to the historic benchmarks of the profession List:
1) B-scale
2) Scope relief for Small jet operators (Eagle)
3) Staple is past practice for ALL future airline acquisitions
4) The only reason other airlines exist is because APA pilots cant do
everything....yet
5)If the APA is the high water mark of unionism then this profession
isn't dead its mummified.

And what did ALPA do concerning:

1) B-scale, ALPA allowed it at many carriers
2) Scope-- ALPA National failed miserably concerning RJ scope issues
3) Staple-- ALPA folded on the TWA issue with APA. ALPA national wasn't concerning with TWA?
4) Increasing standards--All ALPA contracts have a lower watermark than the APA contract.
5) Age 60- ALPA doesn't have a position. APA has a definable position.

APA issue for issue represents working pilots in todays environment.

APA has its problems but understands it purpose of protecting the careers of its pilots while ALPA is lost in its political swamp. ALPA has forgotten its purpose of protecting ALPA pilots after repeated failure as evidenced during the last six years.

When an ALPA negotiator, as I have seen many times, starts arguing the companies position, discounts todays issues because he knows the future, and is not concerned with managements pay, its shows ALPA is not concerned with that pilot groups problems.

When has ALPA national rejected an MECs TA vote because it fails to meet ALPA national standards? NEVER. ALPA national will sign anything.

ALPA national stands for nothing.

 

[GuppyWN]

At least there is SOME resisntence now. Blakely will have an opposing voice of over 12,000 pilots from "the worlds largest airline." And by a large margin. That and the old ALPA vote still show's 56% of them are opposed to change. That leaves SWA (groan) as the loan voice of the major airlines.

Gup

 

[PCL_128]

Add that to the historic benchmarks of the profession List:
1)B-scale
2)Scope relief for Small jet operators (Eagle)
3) Staple is past practice for ALL future airline acquisitions
4) The only reason other airlines exist is because APA pilots cant do
everything....yet
5)If the APA is the high water mark of unionism then this profession
isn't dead its mummified.

This list is just scratching the surface. The APA has done more to destroy the leverage of this profession than you can possibly imagine. The court rulings as a result of the illegal sick-out were enough to decimate RLA labor law. We'll be trying to recover from those rulings for decades to come.

 

[rtmcfi]

This list is just scratching the surface. The APA has done more to destroy the leverage of this profession than you can possibly imagine. The court rulings as a result of the illegal sick-out were enough to decimate RLA labor law. We'll be trying to recover from those rulings for decades to come.

With ALPA bending over for the geezers, we will be trying to recover for decades from the 60-65 rule change. Praters moves regarding the age change are indefensible. Perhaps the APA should start guaging current ALPA represented pilots to see if they would entertain the thought of dropping ALPA in favor of the APA. There are a bunch of folks disatisfied with the Woerth era ALPA concessions. Praters Era is off to a rough start with his pandering to the almost AARP crowd. I am sure the APA could find some supporters....

 

[AAflyer]

This list is just scratching the surface. The APA has done more to destroy the leverage of this profession than you can possibly imagine. The court rulings as a result of the illegal sick-out were enough to decimate RLA labor law. We'll be trying to recover from those rulings for decades to come.

Coming from you that is something else....

AAflyer

Out of curiosity do you know the events of the sick out? When and why the TRO was filed? Just curios, because your post smells of a spattering of info that anyone could pick up at bar, however it lacks anything with meat.

Do me a favor and look into your own house before you throw rocks.

What about the court rulings revolving around Delta not picking up overtime, talk about destroying leverage.

 

[j41driver]

What does the NPA think

Our "leadership" is for changing it to 65. As far as the AirTran pilot group...I don't know and neither does the NPA because they haven't polled anyone. At least not in the last 2 - 3 years...and we've hired almost half of the current pilot group in that time. WTF??

 

[AAflyer]

Our "leadership" is for changing it to 65. As far as the AirTran pilot group...I don't know and neither does the NPA because they haven't polled anyone. At least not in the last 2 - 3 years...and we've hired almost half of the current pilot group in that time. WTF??

Thanks, good to know.

AAflyer

 

[Flopgut]

This list is just scratching the surface. The APA has done more to destroy the leverage of this profession than you can possibly imagine. The court rulings as a result of the illegal sick-out were enough to decimate RLA labor law. We'll be trying to recover from those rulings for decades to come.

Sorry, but this makes zero sense. It's incredibly ironic that you're assailing APA over ALPA (regarding detriment to the RLA) on a thread about CAL!? ALPA did not handle Lorenzo well; AND: It would take APA another 100 years to screw up this profession worse than ALPA. It pains me to say it, I wish ALPA was better, but if UAL had bought TWA, no TWA pilots would be flying for them. And ALPA would have let it go without a peep!

The sick out was ballsy. And it might have worked if APA was AFL-CIO. APA is a better union than than ALPA in the last 7 years IMHO.

 

[Freight Dog]

Gents... you gotta take what PCL128 says with a grain of salt.

He seems like a nice guy, but he's genuinely infatuated with ALPA, and you can't really reason with an individual like that.

 

[PCL_128]

He seems like a nice guy, but he's genuinely infatuated with ALPA, and you can't really reason with an individual like that.

Infatuated? Hardly. ALPA has many problems. No doubt about that. The difference is that I work within the system and will hopefully be able to affect change within the organization eventually. Certain people on this board would rather complain and whine than volunteer their time and work to make things better.

I actually agree with the APA pilots and I'm glad that such an overwhelming majority of them disapprove of a rule change. I wish the ALPA polling had indicated such a massive level of support for the current rule. Unfortunately, no amount of polling is going to change this NPRM. The rule is going to change, and nothing the APA does will change that fact. I'm just glad that we have a representative (Captain Prater) on the ARC that will direct the rule change. The APA has no voice in this process. That would concern me if I was an APA member.

 

[Freight Dog]

Unfortunately, no amount of polling is going to change this NPRM. The rule is going to change, and nothing the APA does will change that fact. I'm just glad that we have a representative (Captain Prater) on the ARC that will direct the rule change.

Most people infatuated with something or someone generally don't recognize it...