Anyone else get a phone call from United today?

[pilotyip]

All unions represent the majority of their members. All contract negotiations are local in nature.

 

[fareview]

OK, first off, no, I didn't have the same opportunity. Got all the way to medical for Marine Corps aviation program out of college and got medically disqualified - no one bothered to tell me 2 pins in an ankle from a snow-skiing accident as a teenager was a problem, even though I was running 3-5 miles a day. So no, we don't all have the same opportunities.

Second, I don't begrudge our military aviators anything... as long as they don't make life harder on everyone else through their post-military choices.

3rd, your last statement above is self-defeating. Of COURSE there will always be jobs that pay less... UNTIL the bar is raised. That's the whole POINT. That experienced and qualified aviators are taking jobs that start with such insultingly-low pay.

How do you RAISE the bar, if people keep doing it? The answer is, you don't. It stays put, and we keep spiraling down the crapper, just as you pointed out, UNTIL THERE AREN'T PILOTS TO TAKE THOSE JOBS.

Unfortunately, just as the supply is drying up at the regional level which MIGHT eventually put some upward pressure on things, we have Open Skies which will kill U.S. airline growth in terms of pilots jobs at about the same rate the supply of pilots is shrinking.

Incidentally, sorry for the earlier rant. This whole pilot contract stuff over here at AAI combined with that liberal USA today full-page article re. deregulation has gotten me pretty P.O.'d in general at where this profession has gone.

Didn't mean to insult anyone, just irritated that guys who could just as easily get an interview with a decent-paying Legacy or Cargo airline will take these kinds of salaries.

p.s. AirTran's 1st year pay is solidly middle of the pack at $45 an hour, not $28 or $32. Not that $45 is worth raving about, but it's not poverty level wage, either. Get your facts straight.

By suggesting he should not take UAL because of the need to raise the bar is the same as asking you to resign from your airline out of protest if you are not the highest paid in the industry on your equipment (including benefits)...by continuing to work at your lower payscale - by your logic...is lowering the bar.

Are you prepared to step-up and resign and forfeit your career...instead of measuring that career in the fullness of its duration once you have retired.

If not, perhaps you should give this gentleman the benefit of being allowed to measure his decision after he retires...at which point he can compare 20+ years as a 135 pilot against 20+ years at a major. (obviously the assumption of UAL's survival must be taken)

Respectfully,

fareview

 

[Shrek]

I don't think it's fair to blame the new guys for the problems of the industry. Just answer me this -

Who is responsible for all the B scales that are and that ever were?

Who allowed all the regional flying because they were too good to fly turbo-props?

Okay...I can't wait for you to answer. It's the senior (as in guys on property at contract time) guys that didn't give a damn about what the new guys would be making - just don't touch my rate of pay. The same guys that allowed the creation of the regionals because they were too proud to fly those turbo-props.

Oh well - Everybody keeps blaming management - don't misunderstand me - they have done some very bad things - but I would say that pilots have been screwed by other pilots more than any of the worst managements at any point in the history of the airlines.

First year pay has ALWAYS been crappy - even when the pay rates weren't forced down the pilots throats through bankruptcy. So - why is the first year pay rates crap at all airlines - Why has just about every legacy gone through/currently have a B-scale- because the pilots already on the property were not willing to expend any negotiating capital to get the rates up.

Later

To recoup training costs from the initial new-hire - that is why there is a jump in pay for the 2nd year at most airlines.

 

[Figmo]

Hey guys sorry, but how long is it taking for guys to get a call after the psyc test?

 

[ualdriver]

A chip on his shoulder indeed! Funny to hear a Tranny chastise others for lowering the bar. Nothing personal, but what exactly has Airtran done over the years to "raise the bar" in this industry?

I agree with those statements UAL-GSO!! It "funny" (in a sad way) to read these LCC pilots criticizing the hourly rates, work rules, retirement, etc., of ANY legacy carrier. It wasn't too long ago that we had an industry leading contract yet we didn't see ANY Airtran, Frontier, JetBlue, etc., pilots doing ANYTHING to come up and meet that bar. In fact, they used their extremely low, total compensation packages to help subsidize their growth and undercut our fares. It's kind of hard to maintain $240/hr. Airbus Captains with awesome work rules and a high 5 figure pension upon retirement when you have pilots at the competition (including Lear's airline none the less) willing to do the job for $120/hour (or less in JetBlue's case when they first started up), FAR work rules, and no pension.

And now we have an Airtran pilot, a member of a pilot group that MASSIVELY undercut DAL pilot scales to help subdize their growth in ATL, telling us legacy guys we need to do something about our payscales after the damage of such behavior has already been done to legacy pay scales, work rules, and retirement? Sorry man, you're way late to the dance. You should have been preaching that 6 years ago.

 

[Z_Pilot]

Hey guys sorry, but how long is it taking for guys to get a call after the psyc test?

+1

I just got the psyc test too.

Are they emailing this to everyone that applies?

 

[NoJoy]

What is this psych test that people are getting?

 

[Z_Pilot]

What is this psych test that people are getting?

200 Questions

T \ F

The link is emailed to you with instructions.

I am not sure if everyone is getting it, or if "selectees" are getting it.

FYI-
I am 6000TT
4000 Jet PIC
Civilian
No internal Rec

 

[D-Bo]

I agree with those statements UAL-GSO!! It "funny" (in a sad way) to read these LCC pilots criticizing the hourly rates, work rules, retirement, etc., of ANY legacy carrier. It wasn't too long ago that we had an industry leading contract yet we didn't see ANY Airtran, Frontier, JetBlue, etc., pilots doing ANYTHING to come up and meet that bar. In fact, they used their extremely low, total compensation packages to help subsidize their growth and undercut our fares. It's kind of hard to maintain $240/hr. Airbus Captains with awesome work rules and a high 5 figure pension upon retirement when you have pilots at the competition (including Lear's airline none the less) willing to do the job for $120/hour (or less in JetBlue's case when they first started up), FAR work rules, and no pension.

And now we have an Airtran pilot, a member of a pilot group that MASSIVELY undercut DAL pilot scales to help subdize their growth in ATL, telling us legacy guys we need to do something about our payscales after the damage of such behavior has already been done to legacy pay scales, work rules, and retirement? Sorry man, you're way late to the dance. You should have been preaching that 6 years ago.

EXCELLENT!!!!!!!!!

 

[Sonny Crockett]

My favorite line in 2002 from an Airtran pilot on this board......


"Those GREEDY United pilots drove the company into BK"