Anyone else get a phone call from United today?

[TheCheat]

I filled out the app Monday morning at about 0015 CDT, the retake on the flight time eval Thursday, the psych quiz on Friday night and got a phone call this afternoon. Not sure how excited to be right now but it's a heck of a lot better than a LearJet.

So what are you're quals? TT, PIC T, etc? Did you have any internal recs or walk-ins?

Just curious to know where I stand vs those getting called.

Psych quiz? You mean the "online assessment questionaire?" I wouldn't call it a psych quiz, but maybe I'm missed it.

 

[PHXFLYR]

And that's why things will never change.

Lemme guess, you're carrying your mil pension and health insurance, right? So flying 80 hours at $32 bucks an hour is $30,000 1st year pay (not a chance in HELL I'd fly an airbus or boeing for that), but with a minimum $40k - 60k plus in military pension, you'll still make more than most 3-4 year civilian 121 guys, so no big deal, right?

But it's better than flying a Lear around Part 135,,,

Thanks for continuing to drag the bar through the mud. I'd have thought someone with your education and experience would know better...

/rant

And how does accepting a position at Ryan,Air Tran or even AWA raise that bar again? See where I'm going with this,Lear? Something about "let he who is without sin cast the first stone" And the crack about the guy carrying his mil insurance . You and I along with every other civilian pilot out there had the same options that he had to put together a career in the military that would have earned us that same benefit. That we chose not to isn't any fault of his nor should you begrudge him that benefit that he earned by laying it on the line for his country. Let's face the facts,bubba. It ain't your Daddy's airline industry any more. Does it justify the miserable pay scales? Hell no. But unfortunatley there will always be jobs out there that pay even worse . And until that changes there isn't jack you can do about it.


PHXFLYR

 

[stillflyn]

And that's why things will never change.

Lemme guess, you're carrying your mil pension and health insurance, right? So flying 80 hours at $32 bucks an hour is $30,000 1st year pay (not a chance in HELL I'd fly an airbus or boeing for that), but with a minimum $40k - 60k plus in military pension, you'll still make more than most 3-4 year civilian 121 guys, so no big deal, right?

But it's better than flying a Lear around Part 135,,,

Thanks for continuing to drag the bar through the mud. I'd have thought someone with your education and experience would know better...

/rant

I was hired at UAL in 99. Starting pay in training... $28 hr. That was 727 panel pay and thats what we all got paid. If you were lucky enough to get the right seat of the 737 you still got paid $28 hr until you passed your checkride. Then you made a wopping $33 hr. That pay sucked too. Funny thing was there were about 10,000 guys who would have given their left nut to make it.

 

[Lear70]

And how does accepting a position at Ryan,Air Tran or even AWA raise that bar again? See where I'm going with this,Lear? Something about "let he who is without sin cast the first stone" And the crack about the guy carrying his mil insurance . You and I along with every other civilian pilot out there had the same options that he had to put together a career in the military that would have earned us that same benefit. That we chose not to isn't any fault of his nor should you begrudge him that benefit that he earned by laying it on the line for his country. Let's face the facts,bubba. It ain't your Daddy's airline industry any more. Does it justify the miserable pay scales? Hell no. But unfortunatley there will always be jobs out there that pay even worse . And until that changes there isn't jack you can do about it.


PHXFLYR

OK, first off, no, I didn't have the same opportunity. Got all the way to medical for Marine Corps aviation program out of college and got medically disqualified - no one bothered to tell me 2 pins in an ankle from a snow-skiing accident as a teenager was a problem, even though I was running 3-5 miles a day. So no, we don't all have the same opportunities.

Second, I don't begrudge our military aviators anything... as long as they don't make life harder on everyone else through their post-military choices.

3rd, your last statement above is self-defeating. Of COURSE there will always be jobs that pay less... UNTIL the bar is raised. That's the whole POINT. That experienced and qualified aviators are taking jobs that start with such insultingly-low pay.

How do you RAISE the bar, if people keep doing it? The answer is, you don't. It stays put, and we keep spiraling down the crapper, just as you pointed out, UNTIL THERE AREN'T PILOTS TO TAKE THOSE JOBS.

Unfortunately, just as the supply is drying up at the regional level which MIGHT eventually put some upward pressure on things, we have Open Skies which will kill U.S. airline growth in terms of pilots jobs at about the same rate the supply of pilots is shrinking.

Incidentally, sorry for the earlier rant. This whole pilot contract stuff over here at AAI combined with that liberal USA today full-page article re. deregulation has gotten me pretty P.O.'d in general at where this profession has gone.

Didn't mean to insult anyone, just irritated that guys who could just as easily get an interview with a decent-paying Legacy or Cargo airline will take these kinds of salaries.

p.s. AirTran's 1st year pay is solidly middle of the pack at $45 an hour, not $28 or $32. Not that $45 is worth raving about, but it's not poverty level wage, either. Get your facts straight.

 

[aa73]

You guys just don't get it. For the past 30 years, starting pay at the majors was ALWAYS crappy. Funny, nobody EVER mentioned how crappy starting pay was at UA, AA, CAL, DAL etc during the 90s hiring boom. The facts are, pilots gladly went to work there because the ROI was terrific. And that may very well be the case again in the future, if we get our contracts back up.

Now, all of a sudden, UAL is "the place not to go" just because of the starting pay? YGTBSM. Yes, UAL's contract needs work, as does ever other airline, but come on, get a grip. Maybe UAL pilots will ratify a new kick a$$ contract in a couple of years that make it the best place to be. Don't base your career on just starting pay alone, that is extremely shortsighted. It's probably a huge pay cut for the first year or two, and then it gets better.

However, we should ALL be fighting in unity for better pay/work rules as our contracts come up. SOS! 73

P.s. Lear 70... Airtran may have great starting pay, but how does it pan out after that? Methinks it's very similar to most of the nationals/legacies out there.

 

[IAHERJ]

AirTran's starting pay, along with JetBlue's, is where it is for a reason. Those contracts(pay rates in the case of JetBlue) were put into place in the late 90's when neither carrier could attract pilots as easily as the majors(whose first year rates were all in the 29-35K range). I'm glad the LCC's have higher first year rates and think the legacies should fix the problems with first year compensation(we definately need to at my company). I just don't need to constantly hear from LCC guys how their first year pay is so great etc. as the reason for it is not so complimentary.

IAHERJ

 

[Lear70]

AirTran's starting pay, along with JetBlue's, is where it is for a reason. Those contracts(pay rates in the case of JetBlue) were put into place in the late 90's when neither carrier could attract pilots as easily as the majors(whose first year rates were all in the 29-35K range). I'm glad the LCC's have higher first year rates and think the legacies should fix the problems with first year compensation(we definately need to at my company). I just don't need to constantly hear from LCC guys how their first year pay is so great etc. as the reason for it is not so complimentary.

IAHERJ

My case in point.

Low supply = higher pay.

Stop taking the jobs, they'll have to do something.

Sorry you find it insulting... I remember the time when you were a humble regional F/O. You weren't at the majors in the early 90's as I recall, and neither was I. You haven't forgotten your roots so quickly over there, have you?

The question isn't about changing the past, the question is how do we change the future if people won't help themselves by not taking those jobs?

 

[IAHERJ]

No , I wasn't. I was at AirTran for 3 years and was there before you were I believe. Nothing against AirTran but I left to start over again at crappy first year pay in order to be where I wanted to be a few years down the road. That time has come and I enjoy where I fly and in what type of equipment I fly in. I enjoy the crews a lot more than I did there(I am speaking of FA's mostly as the pilots at AAI were great for the most part). I haven't forgotten where I was at the regionals. I don't lecture people for taking jobs at the legacies for 29K a year because I did it too; and after working for one of those high paying LCC's.

IAHERJ

 

[Puck Mugger]

Ummmmm.....thread creep

 

[IAHERJ]

Yep, thread creep indeed. Sorry. I think we need to fix the 1st year pay problem at the majors. AA and CAL are negotiations this year and next. Let's hope this gets done so this issue gets put to rest. I can assure you that I will not support nor vote yes on any contract that doesn't significantly improve the conpensation package for 1st year pilots at my airline. That being said, I can't blame guys for taking jobs at CAL, UAL, DAL right now as all 3 are hiring and will probably have this issue resolved in a few years(Delta is already ahead of the rest on 1st year issues). Some people look farther than year 1-3 in terms of pay and want to work for an airline that has a reach around the world and a diverse fleet. I will not berate anyone for applying and taking a job at one as I'd be the pot calling the kettle black. Now Skybus, virgin America etc. are different. With SWA, JBLE, and AAI hiring and basically doing the same type of flying; there is no excuse for someone willing to work for one of those carriers. Do I sound like a hyprocrit here? Hope not.

IAHERJ